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Thread: Why you should use Team Runes.

  1. #1

    Why you should use Team Runes.

    I tend to enjoy researching the Math for games like this so here is a cool tip.
    When calculating a monster stat with runes, each rune bonus affects the next runes bonus.
    All runes are stackable when equiped, and it is multiplied from previous value.
    For EX, 2 runes of "Life" will give: 1 * 1.20 (1st) * 1.20 (2nd) = 1.44 => increase 44%, not 40%.
    That is, the 1st rune will multiply the stat by 100% + bonus%, and then the second rune will multiply that sum by 100% + bonus% and so on and so forth.
    Let's take Team Strength Runes at lvl 3 (+10%) and pretend we are using a team with 9 of them.
    So the math works more like this.

    Total Strength = 1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1 x S))))))))
    Total Strength = 2.358 x S

    For those who are lost, that is 236% Strength bonus by using 9 Team Strength 3 runes.
    This is a considerable difference from 190%.
    If this was 9x Team Life 6 runes, the bonus would be 516% health. Just thought I might throw this one in for the WOW factor.

    TLDR;
    1x Team Strength 3 rune = +10%
    9x Team Strength 3 runes DOES NOT = +190%
    9x Team Strength 3 runes = +236%

  2. #2
    Senior Member leokonj19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffpeanut View Post
    I tend to enjoy researching the Math for games like this so here is a cool tip.
    When calculating a monster stat with runes, each rune bonus affects the next runes bonus.

    That is, the 1st rune will multiply the stat by 100% + bonus%, and then the second rune will multiply that sum by 100% + bonus% and so on and so forth.
    Let's take Team Strength Runes at lvl 3 (+10%) and pretend we are using a team with 9 of them.
    So the math works more like this.

    Total Strength = 1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1 x S))))))))
    Total Strength = 2.358 x S

    For those who are lost, that is 236% Strength bonus by using 9 Team Strength 3 runes.
    This is a considerable difference from 190%.
    If this was 9x Team Life 6 runes, the bonus would be 516% health. Just thought I might throw this one in for the WOW factor.

    TLDR;
    1x Team Strength 3 rune = +10%
    9x Team Strength 3 runes DOES NOT = +190%
    9x Team Strength 3 runes = +236%
    interesting thing

  3. #3
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    This is NOT correct. The old Rune system was multiplicative; the new Rune system is additive. Check it out on one of your own Monsters with multiple Runes of the same type.

    To give you an example, I have a Darkzgul with two level 4 Strength Runes. Each level 4 Strength Rune gives an additional 36% Strength to the Monster. If we do it your way (the old way), then my Darkzgul should have 3311 x 1.36 x 1.36 = 6,124 Strength. But my Darkzgul only has 5,695 Strength, which as you can see, is additive. 3311(1.00 + 0.36 + 0.36) = 5,694.92

    You aren't the first player to state this. It was true, but it is NOT true anymore. I really wish that players would stop spreading false information.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Haka taka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post
    This is NOT correct. The old Rune system was multiplicative; the new Rune system is additive. Check it out on one of your own Monsters with multiple Runes of the same type.

    To give you an example, I have a Darkzgul with two level 4 Strength Runes. Each level 4 Strength Rune gives an additional 36% Strength to the Monster. If we do it your way (the old way), then my Darkzgul should have 3311 x 1.36 x 1.36 = 6,124 Strength. But my Darkzgul only has 5,695 Strength, which as you can see, is additive. 3311(1.00 + 0.36 + 0.36) = 5,694.92

    You aren't the first player to state this. It was true, but it is NOT true anymore. I really wish that players would stop spreading false information.
    your rune are single one not team rune , all the op calculation are about team rune

    actually i test it my self with gold rune level 1
    single give 5% increase and team give 1 % increase
    i set a nature habitat with 3 pandaken each have 3 slot
    sure for single gold rune level 1 each one will have 15%
    but after team gold rune level 1 each have 17%



    actually it is not common to use 9 same team rune on a team but i think the best use of this calculation is for gold rune
    imagine 4 legendary monsters with 3 slot each and with for example lv3 team gold rune

  5. #5
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    I have a Darkzgul with some Team Gold Runes. It was the first one I bred, and it only has two slots open since I got him before the new Rune system came into play. He has two level 2 Team Gold Runes. They are good for 3% more Gold production.

    Whether you check the Runes with multiplication or addition, neither way actually equals an additional 7%. But that's what I get from them.

    1.03 x 1.03 = 1.0609

    1(0.03 + 0.03) = 1.06

    As you can see, doing the math multiplicatively does nothing to get the value anywhere near an additional 7%, but that's the rate that it shows on my screen.

    If I were you, I wouldn't overthink it too much.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Haka taka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post

    If I were you, I wouldn't overthink it too much.
    i agree that the calculations are off , but the sure thing team gold rune will be more useful than single
    now i start making my legendary gold farm and was planing to put lv 3 gold rune so 51 % boost +40 from the boosts so 91 in total but with team sure i will get over 100 %

  7. #7
    All runes are stackable when equiped, and it is multiplied from previous value.
    For EX, 2 runes of "Life" will give: 1 * 1.20 (1st) * 1.20 (2nd) = 1.44 => increase 44%, not 40%.
    This is a quote from the Wiki though, does this mean it is old information?

    A bit later today I will go on and check with a team full of Stamina runes. Should give a pretty clear answer.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post
    This is NOT correct. The old Rune system was multiplicative; the new Rune system is additive. Check it out on one of your own Monsters with multiple Runes of the same type.
    I stand corrected. Looks like I was working off old information.
    I will try remove this thread soon.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffpeanut View Post
    This is a quote from the Wiki though, does this mean it is old information?

    A bit later today I will go on and check with a team full of Stamina runes. Should give a pretty clear answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Buffpeanut View Post
    I stand corrected. Looks like I was working off old information.
    I will try remove this thread soon.
    Yeah it's just old information that never got updated.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Brad065's Avatar
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    So what would be better then? A team with 3 ruin slots all with team ruins or regular ones? For exapmple, speed. If added up no matter what it will increase at most 72% from its original if I did it right. That's if I'm adding both of them. If it's multiplying then how much does it give? This is all very confusing for me haha
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  11. #11
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    The old Rune system used multiplication. The current Rune system uses addition.

    Let's look at your Speed Rune example using level 6 max Runes. Nine Team Speed Runes gives an additional 72% Speed to ALL Monsters. 3 Speed Runes gives 72% to just the one Monster. So it's actually a wash in this particular instance. If you want all of your Monsters to have massive Speed, then you get the same result whether using Team Runes or Runes on all of them.

    Looking at Strength Runes, we see that a level 6 Strength Rune grants 66% more Strength. A level 6 Team Strength Rune grants 19% to all Monsters. So in this instance, a Monster with three Strength Runes will have an additional 66%+66%+66% = 198% more Strength. A team of Monsters with all Team Strength Runes would actually be lower at 19%x9 = 171% more Strength. So in this instance, if you want all of your Monsters to pack the biggest punch, then you would need to use the Strength Runes and NOT the Team Runes.

    To me, the greatest benefit of Team Runes is to put them on a Monster that you use as a support, to help your damage-dealing Monsters be more effective. For example, My Darkzgul has two Strength and one Life Rune, levels 4 and 5 respectively. My Goldfield, who rarely ever attacks, has one Team Strength, one Team Life, and one Team Speed Rune. It gives Goldfield a small stat boost, but more importantly, it makes Darkzgul and C.Y.M.O. that much better.

  12. #12
    Senior Member leokonj19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post
    The old Rune system used multiplication. The current Rune system uses addition.

    Let's look at your Speed Rune example using level 6 max Runes. Nine Team Speed Runes gives an additional 72% Speed to ALL Monsters. 3 Speed Runes gives 72% to just the one Monster. So it's actually a wash in this particular instance. If you want all of your Monsters to have massive Speed, then you get the same result whether using Team Runes or Runes on all of them.

    Looking at Strength Runes, we see that a level 6 Strength Rune grants 66% more Strength. A level 6 Team Strength Rune grants 19% to all Monsters. So in this instance, a Monster with three Strength Runes will have an additional 66%+66%+66% = 198% more Strength. A team of Monsters with all Team Strength Runes would actually be lower at 19%x9 = 171% more Strength. So in this instance, if you want all of your Monsters to pack the biggest punch, then you would need to use the Strength Runes and NOT the Team Runes.

    To me, the greatest benefit of Team Runes is to put them on a Monster that you use as a support, to help your damage-dealing Monsters be more effective. For example, My Darkzgul has two Strength and one Life Rune, levels 4 and 5 respectively. My Goldfield, who rarely ever attacks, has one Team Strength, one Team Life, and one Team Speed Rune. It gives Goldfield a small stat boost, but more importantly, it makes Darkzgul and C.Y.M.O. that much better.
    interesting team, in my opinion you could remove C.Y.M.O. for Laomu ( ofc if you win him)

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokonj19 View Post
    interesting team, in my opinion you could remove C.Y.M.O. for Laomu ( ofc if you win him)
    Well I won't be doing that exactly. C.Y.M.O. has a Speed Rune so that he is faster than Darkzgul. He applies Blocking Ports to give Darkzgul Double Damage and a Shield. Then Darkzgul typically one-shots whomever I choose. So C.Y.M.O. is very much a part of my current strategy.

    That isn't to say that I couldn't give Goldfield a Speed Rune and apply Double Damage with him. But then I lose the Shield, which has proven itself to be a very worthy move for my team.

    What I will do with Laomu is put her on my defensive team. I've been working on one for quite some time now, and I have had several different ideas as to how to go about it. Laomu's moves are perfect for being on a defensive team, so as soon as I get her in a few days, I will level her to 100, Rune her up, and she will replace Goldfield on my offensive team for the time being, while I continue to sort who else I want on the defensive team.

  14. #14
    Senior Member leokonj19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post
    Well I won't be doing that exactly. C.Y.M.O. has a Speed Rune so that he is faster than Darkzgul. He applies Blocking Ports to give Darkzgul Double Damage and a Shield. Then Darkzgul typically one-shots whomever I choose. So C.Y.M.O. is very much a part of my current strategy.

    That isn't to say that I couldn't give Goldfield a Speed Rune and apply Double Damage with him. But then I lose the Shield, which has proven itself to be a very worthy move for my team.

    What I will do with Laomu is put her on my defensive team. I've been working on one for quite some time now, and I have had several different ideas as to how to go about it. Laomu's moves are perfect for being on a defensive team, so as soon as I get her in a few days, I will level her to 100, Rune her up, and she will replace Goldfield on my offensive team for the time being, while I continue to sort who else I want on the defensive team.
    runed up LotA is one nasty beast, cos of his dmg boosts..nemestrinus also..or 2 thorders with plenty of speed and strenght runes

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    Quote Originally Posted by leokonj19 View Post
    runed up LotA is one nasty beast, cos of his dmg boosts..nemestrinus also..or 2 thorders with plenty of speed and strenght runes
    The thing is, and I've said this before, is that a player CONTROLLING their team against another player's team being controlled by the AI can win with pretty much any group of Epic and Legendary Monsters that you decide to use. There are even some Rares, that with Runes, could do well when YOU are controlling the Monsters.

    The hard part is having a team that does well when controlled by the AI. Which is the entire reason for me wanting to run different teams. One team will be for offense (or when I attack and am in control of my Monsters; with the other team being defensive (when I am attacked and not in control of my Monsters).

    While Thorders tend to do well when controlled by the AI, as does Nemestrinus, LotA does not. I have seen so many LotA's that start the match with Mass Refresh when the other two Monsters on their team haven't even moved yet. Same deal with me and my Goldfield. I have fought against so many Goldfields that use Forget Problems two or three times in a row. So the damage boost sounds great in theory, and it is when you are attacking, it is very rare that the AI uses most support moves like that properly.

    That's one of the things that I like about Laomu. She has a move that Poisons and deals damage, a move that deals damage to all and causes random status effects, a move that applies Possessed (which is essentially a Stun), and a move that heals. The AI, in my experience, actually seems to use heals well. I've never seen a Monster heal if the team has taken no damage (random effects like Good Gifts for All excluded).

  16. #16
    Senior Member Haka taka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post
    The old Rune system used multiplication. The current Rune system uses addition.

    Let's look at your Speed Rune example using level 6 max Runes. Nine Team Speed Runes gives an additional 72% Speed to ALL Monsters. 3 Speed Runes gives 72% to just the one Monster. So it's actually a wash in this particular instance. If you want all of your Monsters to have massive Speed, then you get the same result whether using Team Runes or Runes on all of them..
    i think you are wrong

    sure single rune use addition But for sure team rune use multiplication
    as i said i tested 9 team gold rune - each give 1% - but they didn't give me 9 % but 17 % !!!

    the equation Buffpeanut used maybe wrong but the sure thing
    single rune use addition But for sure team rune use multiplication

  17. #17
    Senior Member Haka taka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffpeanut View Post
    I stand corrected. Looks like I was working off old information.
    I will try remove this thread soon.
    why remove it , actually yes team is better than single
    maybe the way it is calculated is what need more search

  18. #18
    Senior Member leokonj19's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xoulrath View Post
    The thing is, and I've said this before, is that a player CONTROLLING their team against another player's team being controlled by the AI can win with pretty much any group of Epic and Legendary Monsters that you decide to use. There are even some Rares, that with Runes, could do well when YOU are controlling the Monsters.

    The hard part is having a team that does well when controlled by the AI. Which is the entire reason for me wanting to run different teams. One team will be for offense (or when I attack and am in control of my Monsters; with the other team being defensive (when I am attacked and not in control of my Monsters).

    While Thorders tend to do well when controlled by the AI, as does Nemestrinus, LotA does not. I have seen so many LotA's that start the match with Mass Refresh when the other two Monsters on their team haven't even moved yet. Same deal with me and my Goldfield. I have fought against so many Goldfields that use Forget Problems two or three times in a row. So the damage boost sounds great in theory, and it is when you are attacking, it is very rare that the AI uses most support moves like that properly.

    That's one of the things that I like about Laomu. She has a move that Poisons and deals damage, a move that deals damage to all and causes random status effects, a move that applies Possessed (which is essentially a Stun), and a move that heals. The AI, in my experience, actually seems to use heals well. I've never seen a Monster heal if the team has taken no damage (random effects like Good Gifts for All excluded).
    it is foolish to keep Mass Refresh for LotA, for that job is Goldfield..can't wait to win Laomu, i spared coins just for her

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haka taka View Post
    i think you are wrong

    sure single rune use addition But for sure team rune use multiplication
    as i said i tested 9 team gold rune - each give 1% - but they didn't give me 9 % but 17 % !!!

    the equation Buffpeanut used maybe wrong but the sure thing
    single rune use addition But for sure team rune use multiplication
    I'm sorry Haka, but multiplication does not work like that. There is no multiplication going on with the Team Runes. 1.01 multiplied by itself nine times does not equal 17. It's not even close.

    (1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01 x 1.01) = 1.0936852727

    As you can see, it doesn't even warrant being rounded up to an even 10%.

    What really seems to be going on is that the percentage values listed for Team Runes are not accurate.

    I just tested some Team Speed Runes myself. I used a Worker Hulk with three open slots. I used all level 1 Team Speed Runes. The games shows that a Team Speed Rune at level 1 gives a 2% Speed increase.

    My Worker Hulk, at level 75, has a base Speed of 1666. When I applied the first Team Speed Rune, it gave me an additional 50 Speed. When I applied the second Team Speed Rune, it gave me another 50 Speed for a total of 100. Finally, when applying the third Team Speed Rune, I received an additional 50 Speed, for a final total of 150 Speed. Therefore each Rune was added to the last. My final Speed for Worker Hulk is 1816.

    What I did notice, however, was that when I did the math using the game's listed value for the level 1 Team Speed Rune, it didn't work out mathematically. 1666(1.0 + 0.02 + 0.02 + 0.02) = 1666(1.06) = 1766 (rounded up).

    So I did some more math and discovered that a level 1 Team Speed Rune is actually conferring a 3% increase in Speed as opposed to the listed 2% increase. 1666(1.0 + 0.03 + 0.03 + 0.03) = 1666(1.09) = 1815.94 = 1816

    It would seem as though the Team Life and Team Strength Runes are listing correct percentages (at least at level 1). But it is clear that the Team Speed Runes are off (again at least at level 1). After looking into the Team Stamina and Team Gold Runes, it seems as though the values listed are incorrect for them as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by leokonj19 View Post
    it is foolish to keep Mass Refresh for LotA, for that job is Goldfield..can't wait to win Laomu, i spared coins just for her
    Like I said, you can use any combination of Epics and Legendaries to win PvP battles when you are controlling your team. LotA's Mass Refresh works the same as Goldfield's Forget Problems. LotA also brings some considerable damage to the table, and his Water moves punish all of those Vada, Moltus, and Firelequin. Addtionally, his Blessed Water gives Precision which all but guarantees that you land your Double Damage hit. I prefer Goldfield for my purposes, but LotA is a fine choice as well to both support and attack for your team.

    And with regards to Mass Refresh and the AI, if you have support moves like this on your Monsters, they are being used incorrectly. The AI leads off with moves like Mass Refresh and Forget Problems on a regular basis. That is why I will be replacing Goldfield with Laomu when I am not attacking. All of the moves that I give her will be useful to some degree regardless of when she uses them. That is not true of Goldfield based on how I have seen the AI play him.

    The bottom line, and I've said this a lot now, is to use who you want when you are attacking. Enjoy the game, use the Monsters that speak to you, choose teams to fight that you know that you have an edge against.

    But when on defense, support moves are garbage because the AI has pretty much zero clue how to use them. A moveset like Laomu's (Noxious Hit, GlobalGloomy, Puzzlement, and Revivify) will have an impact whenever they are used. The first three moves will have a positive impact for your team anytime that they are used. And the heal is one area where the AI seems to not screw up. I've personally yet to see the AI use a heal with all Monsters at full health.

  20. #20
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    It wouldn't surprise me if different runes worked differently: gold adding and power multiplying, or whatever. If they did a change, they might have implemented it partway and then gone after a shiny object. Or things might work differently on FB vs Android vs iOS.

    I have 5x gold-III in one habitat: gold-III says it gives 6%, and the monsters say they're getting 30%. That seems pretty conclusive that gold adds. Or at least says it does.

    Edit: It may be lying. I just added a gold rune to a habitat, and the increase in actual gold output doesn't match.

    I've personally yet to see the AI use a heal with all Monsters at full health.
    OOH! We may have a winner. To make the AI use the moves you want, find a monster with two or three heals, and it will use the other move or the other two moves instead of having four to choose stupidly from.
    Last edited by dsws; 07-12-2015 at 21:40.

  21. #21
    Senior Member c0ntr1v3d+'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsws View Post


    OOH! We may have a winner. To make the AI use the moves you want, find a monster with two or three heals, and it will use the other move or the other two moves instead of having four to choose stupidly from.
    Yes. Cyan Nathura.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffpeanut View Post
    I tend to enjoy researching the Math for games like this so here is a cool tip.
    When calculating a monster stat with runes, each rune bonus affects the next runes bonus.

    That is, the 1st rune will multiply the stat by 100% + bonus%, and then the second rune will multiply that sum by 100% + bonus% and so on and so forth.
    Let's take Team Strength Runes at lvl 3 (+10%) and pretend we are using a team with 9 of them.
    So the math works more like this.

    Total Strength = 1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1(1.1 x S))))))))
    Total Strength = 2.358 x S

    For those who are lost, that is 236% Strength bonus by using 9 Team Strength 3 runes.
    This is a considerable difference from 190%.
    If this was 9x Team Life 6 runes, the bonus would be 516% health. Just thought I might throw this one in for the WOW factor.

    TLDR;
    1x Team Strength 3 rune = +10%
    9x Team Strength 3 runes DOES NOT = +190%
    9x Team Strength 3 runes = +236%
    But team runes don't let you build on all your monster's strengths..

    E.g: Varuna, Exo

  23. #23
    Senior Member cs_blizzard's Avatar
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    Oh God this is too much to read and understand...

  24. #24
    Senior Member Haka taka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cs_blizzard View Post
    Oh God this is too much to read and understand...
    just now i found that Nmtan added a rune calculator to the rune guide , very useful

    very good job nmtan and thanks for those updates

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    Yes, the rune calculator confirms what I think as well - team runes apply addition, not multiplication, i.e.

    If your strength is 3000 and you have 2 level X Strength runes (28% each) you will get 3000 + 3000* 28 / 100 + 3000 * 28 / 100 = 4680 or 3000 * 1.56 = 4680

    That should close the topic

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