Hello everyone!

Please use this as a feedback thread, you can read the communication HERE.

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Option 2 sounds like the better solution.

I like option 2 as well.
The main downside of option 2 is that according the time zone, it could be more or less convenient. I would not like that every team war starts at midnight, it would be for me a huge disadvantage.

So I would suggest that each teal can choose between 2 different time zones to start a war.

Well obviously the second option. Having all teams in the same pool would make matchmaking fairer.

I vote giving option 2 a try too. Time zones Will change for everyone over time as there is a break after each war (hence each war gets later and later, eventually going around the clock)

a Team should habe tha chance to decide whether it will be a part of the war or not.
And i would prefer when there is not 1 fix war start time every 48h, but when there are fix start times every 8h or an other time range.

Option 2 sounds the best as option 1 is just more band aid and doesn't solve the true problems.

It's the only true way to make this new league system work if you plan on having seasons. As you noted in above you have to assure all teams have equal chance to complete the same amount of wars in a season. That said, I am not a fan of 'seasons' unless option 2 is applied. There is no way to assure teams are matching with close ranked teams and thus seasons will just be the art of dodging opponents. You also have to assure that teams get an equal chance of wars that potentially pay out the same amount of trophies - option 2 can solve this.

If you go option 1 you have to do away with seasons and incorporate penalties for sitting idle. Yes you fall behind in trophies but that is not enough to prevent teams from waiting for a few hours here and there to assure a win.

@claudius-dc-sailer said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

a Team should habe tha chance to decide whether it will be a part of the war or not.
And i would prefer when there is not 1 fix war start time every 48h, but when there are fix start times every 8h or an other time range.

Agreed, teams need to be able to opt in or out of wars, or choose their time slot if you folks make 2 or 3 different global start times.

Anything that gets more teams in to the matchmaking pool is welcome by me, I've advocated for that for years (before the migration to this forum software!).

We obviously have no insight in to how many teams are typically rolling at any given time and how the balance of team strength is spread throughout, but it's obvious at least in the top 1-300 teams that there aren't enough of them entering matchmaking at similar times to get fun/even matches. So if the matchmaking data says that having extra start times would still create a diluted pool of teams, I strong prefer the one global time.

Some of the obvious issues with enforced times is that the war start time is not going to be ideal for some regions, in which case maybe some of the pain can be alleviated by reducing the cool down times on used monsters (from 5 hours to 3 or 4 hours) so that attacks can be grouped a little tighter time-wise.

Prep day could also be reduced by a couple of hours so that teams have a little time after each war to make roster changes and still hit the matchmaking time slot.

Also, just a curiosity, what would the plan be for an odd man out team during matchmaking?

Option 2 looks better.

Every 48 hours is what some other games do without problems.

I'm not sure why teams need time to "rest." I get plenty of rest in the 24 hours prep time before each war. It takes me all of 2 minutes to make sure I have the correct team in place. Then I sit and do nothing for 24 hours waiting for the war to start.

But, yes, the more teams in the matchmaking pool the better.

The current recent improvements have helped our team with matchups, however, it can still sometimes take a few hours to get that matchup. If more teams are in the pool, it should speed things up.

option 2 sounds great to me, little time to rest sounds good too in case someone leaves the team and need to recruit or whatnot , i'd prefer one global time ..i'm guessing it's easier to find a balanced match when all teams are available, ...worth a shot

I vote for option 2 with 4 hours wait between each war. This will keep start times rotating around the clock so that it won't be continuously unfair for particular time zones. It will also allow for roster changes etc. between wars!

And reducing recovery from 5 hours to 4 hours would help, too, as it would also bring it down to 2 hours during rage wars. 2.5 hours was always pain!

@david-ml said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

I vote for option 2 with 4 hours wait between each war. This will keep start times rotating around the clock so that it won't be continuously unfair for particular time zones. It will also allow for roster changes etc. between wars!

That's a good idea! Only drawback is that we'll lose about one war every two weeks as all the 4 hour waits get added up. I like how it both keeps times rotating and the largest pool of teams for matching though.

@karryt said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

Only drawback is that we'll lose about one war every two weeks as all the 4 hour waits get added up

What you lose in wait time between wars you have to calculate against current matchmaking times which have been several hours for most of our matches lately, so a very small price to pay for the potential benefits of having all teams in the same pool

@david-ml said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

@karryt said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

Only drawback is that we'll lose about one war every two weeks as all the 4 hour waits get added up

What you lose in wait time between wars you have to calculate against current matchmaking times which have been several hours for most of our matches lately, so a very small price to pay for the potential benefits of having all teams in the same pool

Hmm, true. We haven't seen quite that long matchmaking times, but then again we often get a lot of not great matches.

Still, if the system were to switch to a once a day match or similar the possibility is there that wait time could be almost fully eliminated. Heck, even if the matching algorithm that SP uses is so complex that it takes a long time to run they could pre-run a lot of it knowing which teams are opted in.

Option 2 definitely but what about a 4 hour wait between wars then 12 hour prep instead of 24? Nobody needs a whole day to decide on what monsters to use

Re: Players would be able to opt-out of the next War.

I don't like the sound of this. We demand all players fight so if someone opts-out then it makes it harder for leaders to quickly see who didn't do attacks. I imagine opt-out would show under stats as "attacks/opportunities" unchanged? If so, please no. Right now we can see easily who is 0/5 to kick them out. Allowing them to sit out is not a good thing. It's a requirement for the team effort to fight. No sitting out allowed.

Option 1 obviously is not working. You can make a theoretically very sound matching system, but too many teams will always try to duck a fair match up.

Option 2 is more or less what I suggested over one and a half year ago.
It was posted on a well known Facebook group, but forwarded to the people in charge at that time.

I will quote my idea here, since it allows more room for personnel changes than in the current draft of the idea (see item 3 below). Also note that I would not make the range as narrow as for TBGR. I have no desire whatsoever to fight the same ten teams over and over again.

===========================
I believe the current match making system should be completely altered. Here’s an idea I would like to hear your opinions on:

We are now in a situation where weaker teams try to avoid stronger teams, stronger teams try to avoid even stronger teams and some of the strongest teams take hours and hours to find a match (and sometimes even the strongest try to avoid a hard war). In the end I don’t think anyone really gets any better because of this. Quite a tiring and stupid process.

So what if the entire match making system was revised with something completely new?

1. Teams sign up every week for an X number of wars. Usually that would be 3.
2. At the start of every week each team gets 3 randomly selected opponents from within ‘their own range’.
3. Every war starts 4-8 hours after the last one so people can make sure they have enough time for some personnel changes if needed.
4. If a team starts with 30 in one week, but drops to fewer members, the bases that can not be filled will remain empty (rather than dragging the other team to 25 as well, as is the case now).
5. To take different time zones into account, wars start at different times.

Benefits to this:

1. No more bullshitting around with match making. You get what you get.
2. You know in advance what opponents you will get and will be able to decide better whether to activate Mjolnir or not et cetera.
3. There is no way you can get the same opponent twice every week.

Downsides could be that you can only have 3 wars every week and that teams that are consisting of members of the same time zone will have to start a war in the middle of the night every now and then.

@ekto-gamat

Downsides could be that you can only have 3 wars every week and that teams that are consisting of members of the same time zone will have to start a war in the middle of the night every now and then.

a solution to this could also be a button that can be used before time has arrived so rolls when time is there, hope Im making myself clear here
btw love to post your post on discord too but we have a pretty strict policy on language there so you or me have to edit it

@stvrox said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

Option 2 definitely but what about a 4 hour wait between wars then 12 hour prep instead of 24? Nobody needs a whole day to decide on what monsters to use

While I myself wouldn't be too opposed to that, I can see that being an issue for some. Imagine going to sleep right before prep starts, sleeping 8 hours, then waking up and going to work/school in the morning. I don't always have time in the morning to check in before work so could miss the whole prep stage. Taking 2-4 hours off of the 24 hour prep I think should hopefully affect less folks. I believe that's what Clash of Clans did a while back also to keep wars from slowly rolling back in time.

@monsterbath said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

Re: Players would be able to opt-out of the next War.

I don't like the sound of this. We demand all players fight so if someone opts-out then it makes it harder for leaders to quickly see who didn't do attacks. I imagine opt-out would show under stats as "attacks/opportunities" unchanged? If so, please no. Right now we can see easily who is 0/5 to kick them out. Allowing them to sit out is not a good thing. It's a requirement for the team effort to fight. No sitting out allowed.

I don't think without a revamp of the team system they will allow for individuals to opt in or out of wars. It was suggested that whole teams be able to opt out, although if the system ends up being one fixed time for all teams to match I don't think it's quite as big a deal to force all teams to match. Trophy system would need to take in to account teams that don't war or only participate in every other or some such though.

None of them, both options take some teams disadvantage, the first one lead us to fight with p2w teams, the second one will take loose time, make it boring, do you really want to lose more gamers? Leagues in war didn't fix anything

@marianne-van-es said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

@ekto-gamat

btw love to post your post on discord too but we have a pretty strict policy on language there so you or me have to edit it

Feel free to edit it.

@ekto-gamat said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

If a team starts with 30 in one week, but drops to fewer members, the bases that can not be filled will remain empty (rather than dragging the other team to 25 as well, as is the case now).

No, no and no! We have had plenty of occasions were we either suddenly lost a whole bunch of players or decided to get rid of a bunch of players. If that happens after or during the first war of your set of 3 then the following two go into the bin as well. Sorry, don't like your idea at all!

@ekto-gamat said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

I have no desire whatsoever to fight the same ten teams over and over again.

Neither do I and if everybody will be in the same pool EVERY time then that is a very real possibility. The only way to avoid that is to expand the range somewhat depending on where teams sit relative to others....

....and whilst getting consecutively annihilated by elite teams is very disheartening, I will always treasure some of our elite encounters, in particular with AMAB and PoF. These wouldn't have happened if the matching would never allow such discrepancies. I think the odd war were you are completely outgunned is perfectly fine as long as it is only occasionally!!!!

@stvrox said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

12 hour prep instead of 24?

Nope, needs to be 24 hours to accommodate busy people!

@david-ml said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

@ekto-gamat said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

If a team starts with 30 in one week, but drops to fewer members, the bases that can not be filled will remain empty (rather than dragging the other team to 25 as well, as is the case now).

No, no and no! We have had plenty of occasions were we either suddenly lost a whole bunch of players or decided to get rid of a bunch of players. If that happens after or during the first war of your set of 3 then the following two go into the bin as well. Sorry, don't like your idea at all!

I see your point, but that is only a small part of the idea.

@ekto-gamat said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

I see your point

I'm glad you do

@ekto-gamat said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

but that is only a small part of the idea.

But it is it's biggest downfall. As nice as it would be to have three set matches set for the week, if you start with a team of 30 and then go down to 27 or 26 after the first war you either put the team of less than 30 at a significant disadvantage or you will force players on the other team into observer mode. Both solutions are undesirable, so I honestly can't see your idea as a workable option....

@david-ml said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

@ekto-gamat said in [The future of Team Wars and Leagues -
But it is it's biggest downfall. As nice as it would be to have three set matches set for the week, if you start with a team of 30 and then go down to 27 or 26 after the first war you either put the team of less than 30 at a significant disadvantage or you will force players on the other team into observer mode. Both solutions are undesirable, so I honestly can't see your idea as a workable option....

There are different solutions to this as well, most likely. Just cannot think of any at the moment.

@ekto-gamat why not just check if the team was resently matched with a specific team during, for example, last 7 days, and if yes, match with another team.

We already have war history implemented, this is just adding one more rule to matchmaking algorithm with data being already available.

On the topic of rematches, after a close war the team that has lost may want a rematch. This could be offered as an option where the losing team can ask the system for a rematch should the other team be available in the pool!

@relux dont know if you have heared but matchmaking is already for some over 24h dont think another rule will help much

We spent over 12 hours matching, yesterday. We rolled with 30 players. I do not know what SP did to trigger this, but nope, not an improvement. Our current line up and war rules certainly do not merit us having to wait for half a day before a top 10 team decides to roll.

Either concede that unfair match ups exist (i.e. leave things as they are/were) or introduce some version of automated matching.

@marianne-van-es I can totally relate about long matchmakind, but we are discussing new matchmaking system where more teams should be available for matching at the same time, aren’t we?

Scheduled wars are not the solution. It would only add its own problems. For example, which timezone will they start in? If it's more favorable to one team, it can change the outcome of the war. Also, if a team wants to wait a little bit before starting a war, they would have to wait a full 2 days to join the next one.

@tyroz

Option 2 whatever you can do to prevent the dual disappointment of cakewalk stomping on the weak, or then getting absolutely waffle stomped. There must be an algorithm for placing teams in leagues by MP, and adjusted when team composition changes.

Example. In our current team war we are in league Gold III winning about 6000 war coins past 90 days and at about 200k monster power, versus our opponent with 800k monster power. Losing 21 to 198 with over half our team unable to win a point. The horror.

Option 2.
which have been a suggestion by many players myself included since the old forum, glad SP finally took notice of these years later. better late than never i guess.

@tyroz

I like option 2. I just hope that we can start war when we want to, not it be automatic. I liked the way it was before - where the matchmaking matched closely with my Team and I do like the 24 hour prep. I like the Leagues, but the matchmaking is currently uneven. The way it is now, my Team went from being in rank 2k and we are now at 5k because the matchmaking is uneven. I'm encouraging my Team to level up and/or rank up their monsters, add relics and ruins to attempt to be equal to the enemy Teams we've been matched up with lately. At the moment, I choose to not do war because the uneven matchmaking is making my Team ranking go the wrong way. Good luck with this fix; I can't wait to see this change. Hopefully soon.

I've long championed a variant of option 2. Instead of one start time every 48+ hours, why not have a few throughout the day?

As for the question of "why do we need a rest time".. besides juggling our rosters, some times do a lot more on prep day than set a quick defense and be done with it. Strategy is important, both on an individual and team basis. So, yeah, war is a constant thing for teams like ours.

14h searching for a war, & this seems to be happening at weekends. I open a ticket, & always get a reply a few hours after we've matched...only to inform me that we've matched. This is what ML is mostly about, so, please put more effort into fixing this than the rune lords challenge, changes in specials, race monsters nerfs or buffs & other teeny tiny whims.

@ss13 how many members in your team and ranking?

@marianne-van-es said in The future of Team Wars and Leagues - Feedback:

@ss13 how many members in your team and ranking?

28 members, rank 16, 27 hours and still counting...

@c0ntr1v3d the problem at this moment is your team cant be matched to many. MM is searching a team in your trophy range for fair matching + members + not b2b with same team now if you take a look in top 100, 9 teams have only 1 or 2 members they left a team there maybe to comeback to after race or have some easy wars come back for the rewards after they gathered enough medals . This is becoming a big problem in top

@marianne-van-es

I understood a failure to match the numbers would result in that parameter being loosened over time. But 30 odd hours is ridiculous. I only play for war. So there is no incentive for me to play. I am rapidly disengaging. Bad matchups are better than no matchups.

@c0ntr1v3d there is a new system coming in later in January. The current system will try and match you with a team that is +-1 your numbers and +-500 trophies that you haven't been matched with immediately before. A quick look at the ranks shows who you can potentially match. We also had 20+ hour search times when we were 27 and are now matching fairly quickly being 30....

I understand the reasoning behind the current smaller parameters of matchmaking. It is an improvement, in the sense that match ups have certainly been better lately. For us and a few other teams however, it also causes a big problem. It already destroyed Vortigern.

If we are not at 30 there are probably only 2 teams we can match, because only they are in our very limited range and have approximately the same number of players. If we go to 30 by adding weak/incompetent/inactive players we will probably lose because we will match a 30 people team of approximately the same strength that does not have these issues.

Recruiting during a Race is nearly impossible, especially if you are a team that is not very active during races because most of us think they are a stupid, irrelevant waste of our lives. We also lost a few players at the start of the Race, causing us to drop below 30 in the first place. So at the moment we basically cannot war, simply because we have to wait until this damned race ends and we can finally add some recruits who have a decent enough profile and know what they are doing.

I can treat races as something others may like for some strange reason, but I just do not do very actively. The moment you force people who play at a higher level to do at least 50 laps in a race because otherwise they cannot war, which is the case in the current situation, they may leave the game.

End this travesty and introduce some form of auto matching please.

@c0ntr1v3d what David says changes are going to come at the moment its a good system for ch1 and down if you have a good amount of members, we match quick and get fair matches at the moment we have a 6/4 win/lose.
I know you dont mind to match higher up but you would also match lower those will be no fun at all for both parties

And no war isnt an option because as you say it for many its a reason to play

What I know is sp is looking at another bench system and I hope they will also look at alternative wars so like no runes no relics or when you match a much lower ranked team the war can be made more fair so it still be interesting for both parties

@marianne-van-es The problem is that we already know all these information, what we need is a solution fast. Whether they need to dichotomize the matchmaking system for allowing both lower and higher ranked teams is their problem; that is just not normal to have matchmaking issue each time you lose 1 or 2 players neither is normal that if we want to match we need to recruit proxy accounts as fillers to have a proper number of players (no fun for us or these fillers since they would likely not even get a turn in the war they would help us to match). SP 's reactivity is still too slow on this matter, whatever amount of effort they put in it, it is still not good enough. Race, holidays or whatever still does not justify the persisting issue as well and that really bothers a good number of players.

Still no match. So bored with this game when there is no war.

Lol, going on 2 days...I've got a reply from support that they're investigating. They should investigate on their time & manually match us for a war...all this already known blah blah blah info is not going to change the utter boredom ML is for us as a team at the moment... it's absolutely killing at the moment. The race is for racers, not for those of us who have stayed playing ML solely for team wars! Do your jobs SP, it's getting close to 2 days, searching for a war...boredom has set in & we're left with the race as the only option available ...not good for a team of race haters

@ss13 @xargul @C0ntr1v3d @Ekto-Gamat the only thing I can do is warning them they are risking of losing the interest of an very established team and players

@marianne-van-es Thanks, but it is a risk they lose the interest of a second established team, because for one the damage already is done:

@ekto-gamat I know about Vortigern and I was/am sad that this has happened also because they are now one of the teams in top with only 1 or 2 players I know why the left and didnt leave because of race or easier wins but because they couldent match I cant say that of the other teams. the only thing I can say is hope a solution will be there soon