So to obtain a mutant level 10 rune we have to use 3 level 10 runes??

Really?

I only have two X runes lol. I at least hope we get more opportunities to get some. Treasure Cave ain't an opportunity, If that's what you was thinking..

So 3 level 10 runes will give you a level 3 rune benefit? 9 level 10 runes for one super mutant rune, That is insane.
Edit:misread chart. 9 X runes give you a level 3 rune. Yeah umm no thanks
I have 80ish X runes but i doubt very much i will be converting them to mutant runes.
If it was X speed+Xstamina=Mutant speed/stamina then mutant s/s+ X stamina=super mutant stamina i may of made a few.
It was stated it would be less than 4 runes to make a mutant rune, while this is true 3 is not much better than 4, and 9 is a lot more than 4!

@Fox when did gambling become a 'skill'? There is nothing skillful about picking mindlessly between doors. Treasure caves are purely about luck and gemming.

@vargranger said in Mutant runes:

@Fox when did gambling become a 'skill'? There is nothing skillful about picking mindlessly between doors. Treasure caves are purley about luck and gemming.

I'm still digesting the info on the runes, but that immediately stood out to me too, and I find the statement rather offensive to players. There's absolutely no skill to doing caves, it's 100% gambling, and preys on the human tendency to make bad decisions when evaluating cost and wins/rewards. Don't try to sugarcoat exploitative features as something they aren't.

Mmh, considering the small extra effect you are getting, it means if you are using standard runes of Lvl IX and X mostly, that you would also only want to use mutant runes of that level. However, you have to sacrifice 3 runes for the sake of one for that added extra. I can't see many doing this as it's just nuts. I'd be happy to fuse a few 5s & 6s but because the main boost will then also stay a 5 or 6, I'd still be better off using normal IX or X....

....I think will just ignore these runes completely. I can see no advantage whatsoever using them unless you are rich and don't have anything better to spend your money on!!!

I looked at the percentages and couldn't believe for a second why anyone would do this unless they had a spare 1000 X runes or so. Seriously who couldn't use a normal X rune on a different monster before giving it up for such a small gain

As for the caves I have got 4 X runes in the last 3 weeks. Most only cost me 4,14,28. But the last one cost 55 as well. I do see some sort of pattern in the colour behind the door is often a lot lighter compair with the bomb.
Am I seeing things or can anyone else see it as well.

@jimmy for a super mutant yes

@zwhole Really, really, really hard to believe any of that

@VargRanger @karryt agreed, it's straight up offensive. No skill needed to open doors with fixed, server-side rewards (I don't buy the 25% chance for a trap in every room and the rewards are also nerfed) ...

@marianne-van-es said in Mutant runes:

@jimmy for a super mutant yes

If you are replying to this post:
@jimmy said in Mutant runes:

?
That is incorrect info, 3 level X runes gives you a mutant rune. 3 mutant runes gives you a super mutant, so nine X runes.

If you meant this post

@jimmy said in Mutant runes:

![alt text](https://media1.tenor.com/images/9fd4094a1d929fc10ce1d5b2a28b7d0a/tenor.gif?itemid=7844903
yes,yes it is.

Sadly.... Im really consider quiting after seeing this.... 3 X rune for 1 mutated X rune? Let see how bad it impact me who save up gem and finally manage to get 16 X rune for my pvp att and def...and combining 3 X to become 1 mutate X? Nightmare for me... Hopefully this mutated rune wont be op else im giving up on this game...

My rune building is only at level 8 anyway, as I consider that the limit of F2P.

So I guess mutant runes are not for me, just the gem whales.

@clackers absolutely untrue you can buy a normal X for 345 gems you can save up for them. For a super mutant rune yes absolutely not f2p and agreed only for the Elites and so make the gap bigger

Not 345 gems only 1 level 10 on sale for half price still to much @Marianne-van-Es

@fireman53 i know there are 50% to 85% so never buy on lower sales than 85%

How often do we get 85 percent off on level 10's. Not very often I think. But that's not what's my post is about. We are tired of social point asking for our feedback about new features then disregarding what the ml community has to say.
From what I've seen on discord and different forums we as a whole do not want mutant runes. All we get is silence. They tend to rush new features we don't want and won't fix the ones we do. I want a game that doesn't crash every other war battle or nemenis dungeon. Yes sp does do good and I give them props but Before rushing out new monsters or event we just want to fix what we have would be a start.

@Fox please tell us why did the team nerf the cave rewards and why didn't you tell us about it!

@keki14

I also would like to know why they are rigged

Sadly, I don’t think they care. There are tons of good arguments and questions on discord server, and they are there since the very first taringa leak and the first official announcement. None of them are addressed.

@clackers have to differ from you . . . Being a f2p player doesn't mean you're limited to use lvl VIII runes, I'm a f2p player and have +20 X runes myself, it's all about saving gems and give priority what you need atm and focus on it

Staying on topic, I'd give it a try for these mutant runes, but for crafting a Super Mutant one not sure about it

Well, they may be useful for Battlegrounds. Now that SP has taken Gold Fever away from me (dropped from 380th to beyond 1000th), there is no point converting all my Lvl 4-6 runes into team gold. So I shall just fuse them into mutants to give my TBG monsters a bit of an edge. However, no way that I will ever fuse anything above Lvl 6 - not worth it!!!

And definitely not dropping a single gem into this madness

@david-ml I don't see myself either fusing my high lvl runes into mutant ones . . . Too much of a risk and high lvl runes doesn't grow on trees lol . . . Rather use them as normal

@david-ml Gold runes cannot be fused ...

Mutant Runes are the worst idea in a long time. Players that have lot of money and gems to waste will get stronger teams for it. But Alot of players won't won't to lose high level runes just to get a mutant one. It took me ages to finally get a speed level X. if and when I get another I'm not going to waste it by merging it FFS.

@bellatrix how does a F2P have over 20 level X runes?

@tom6969 by playing for a long time and only buy on sale for 345 gems

@tom6969 it's possible . . . I have a friend f2p who has more than 30 X runes, hasn't spent a dime on the game, it's all about dedication, saving gems for it or crafting, knowing what's your priority and focussing on it

@bellatrix i'm pretty sure there was a bug a long time ago that let people get a bunch of level 10 runes cheap. And you used to be able to get level 9 runes from team shop

@testcyp said in Mutant runes:

i'm pretty sure there was a bug a long time ago that let people get a bunch of level 10 runes cheap

Not a bug, a sale! I think they sold them on a sale for 150 or 200 gems. One of the oldies if there are any left might remember as it would have been 3.5-4 years ago!!! An yes, Lvl 9 in the team shop for 1500 coins which rich teams doing serious Frat events could buy bucket loads of....

@david-ml said in Mutant runes:

@testcyp said in Mutant runes:

i'm pretty sure there was a bug a long time ago that let people get a bunch of level 10 runes cheap

Not a bug, a sale! I think they sold them on a sale for 150 or 200 gems.

Not exactly. Groups of people from different test groups would get such offers. It was the time that SP decided to bring X runes on sale for the first time and were trying to get a feel for what would be the best price. Happened in the fall of 2015 I think, shortly after the beginning of Team Wars.

As a consequence some players got cycles of awesome offers, others only crappy offers (still much better than 2300 gems obviously) and others no offers at all.
Created huge inequality, since before this time the only players who had more than 1 or 2 X runes were either extremely ritch or cheaters (unfortunately the vast majority).

And yes, lvl IX runes for 1500 coins (very nice in combination with the war coins glitch for some) and later for 3000 coins in the Team Shop. Made all of AMAB's F2P players fully IX runed over night, pretty much.

And there also was the little incident with high level runes being sold for gold accidentally, which never was rolled back properly for everyone (though admittedly, at least SP tried). I believe this happened before Team Wars.

@ekto-gamat , if I'm not mistaken, lvl X runes were only introduced a few months after team wars started...so, those lvl X runes were being sold for gold after team wars started. & yes, clearly remember everyone comparing their rune offers, which 3 of our team mates & I were completely left out. I'm not in favour of mutant runes, but it's too late, as SP's data will be overly exaggerated with all the mutant rune crafting clearly seen in the rune lords challenge. Even the reduction of unequipping lvl 8-X runes, are not enticing me...none will make up what this game will suddenly cost. Bear in mind, SP thought it ok to penalise the whole base when you took away unequipping points towards rune lords challenge points, because they couldn't be bothered to stop those using programmes to unequip lvl 3 runes. Judging the cost of this game, most players are adults, many don't have the time to spend hours unequipping lvl 3 runes...I know, I don't.

@ss13 said in Mutant runes:

@ekto-gamat , if I'm not mistaken, lvl X runes were only introduced a few months after team wars started...

I believe they were there already when wars started.
But memory is a fickle thing and I have no access anymore to any resources to check.
@C0ntr1v3d however, does.

@ss13 said in Mutant runes:

Even the reduction of unequipping lvl 8-X runes, are not enticing me...none will make up what this game will suddenly cost.

Yep, still way too much to move runes around all the time. Also, I won't touch the mutant runes as they are not worth the extra at levels below X and I won't sacrifice any of my precious X runes!

And in terms of cost, I haven't spent a dime on the game directly (only a few $ on MW offers) for almost a year now and I can still comfortably compete at L3 Team Wars level. Should the time ever come that I truly can't keep up anymore as F2P, I probably quit. However, for as long as wars provide me with good entertainment, I will stick with it!!!

@marianne-van-es When was the last time you could buy an X for 345 gems? Recently all offers I've seen were 500+

@ekto-gamat What was the war coins glitch? I've heard of it here and there, but it was never really explained.

@ekto-gamat : ..."memory is a fickle thing" - wow I so agree and it never ceases to amaze me; I can't even remember four years back and answer a simple question as "was X-Runes released before or after the start of Team Wars".
That shows the importance of taking notes (at least notes show an aspect of events, although not forcibly 100% correct). I do remember some month after Teams Wars started that I had spend more than 8000 gems on level VI Runes (because i wrote that to someone). So perhaps X was not available, to expensive or perhaps not relevant to me because my Rune Temple was just level VI or VII? Does not matter - what matter is that Runes was and still are expensive. Also Runes on wheels (changing Runes).

With very small letters I have to write: I like Mutant Runes. I know most players absolutely hate the "Mutants", so: just hit me
I believe Mutant Runes can bring back an element of strategy in the game - if allowed. For me any element that can bring back a bit of fun, surprise, new experience (besides mirror-mirror having magical side effects of course) is most welcome.

I think is was Fox who wrote that Mutant Runes can have relevance even at level 5, 6 and 7. I have to agree. Example: I made a mutant X Power Rune with Stamina and replaced the Normal Power Runes on Prince. I replaced Princes Stamina Rune with a Level VII Stamina+Power (+8%) rune. So just that change increased The power of Prince by 8% and stamina went from +152% (Single Stamina X-Rune) to 159% extra Stamina (+116% from the Stamina Rune level VII and extra 43% from the new mutant Power rune with stamina). That makes me believe that lower leveled Mutant Runes are indeed very useful.
For me, however, I am only interested in lvl X, so I made a Stamina Rune X with extra Power so Prince can deal with monsters equipped with health improved speed runes.

However Mutant Runes are so expensive and (here comes my point:) the new Mutant Runes will be devastating for the game, if players are not allowed to reuse the rather few Mutant Runes they are capable of crafting.

Just to begin with: we all have 2 teams tied up in PvP and two teams tied up in Team wars. Just to equip those 4 teams with Mutant Runes takes:
4 Teams * 3 Monsters * 3 Runes = 36 Mutant X-Runes or 108 X Runes

Double that up, in case of SX Runes! I believe SX runes can be important to: on paper only a small difference, but sometimes that is all it takes (you do not win a battle getting things 99,99% right: you just loose!).

That is not all, however. To use the Runes strategically, you will need extra Runes. Perhaps 6 team-speed (mutant) Runes with extra stamina for some wars, health Runes with extra team stamina or team speed or power for other wars. Or perhaps you need another set of speed X Runes with extra stamina or health, or perhaps 3 extra power Runes with extra health or stamina.
That is a lot of Mutant Runes. But not bad, if the idea is to (re-)create a game more fun and interesting to play. It surely also helps the communication between players.

I know SP promised that prices of Runes comes down and more events with runes rewards are coming.
That is good!
But the whole idea is killed (I am afraid) if it costs gems once more to unequip runes.

Imagine wars every second day where you need to change runes on two teams: that is 6 monsters with 3 runes: 18 runes! Even 5 gems pr rune is to much (equivalent to 90 gems every two days).
Not possible, so if changing runes costs gems, well I think most players will reserve their gems for other costly events like Team Race, 72 hr Challenge, Progressive Islands, breeding events etc. or for getting Cells, Orbs, Runes, Relics - there are so many other monetizing aspects in this game today. Not that Mutant Runes will die, but just not as a fun or strategic element as could be.

I believe that is something to think seriously about.

@tom13 said in Mutant runes:

@ekto-gamat What was the war coins glitch? I've heard of it here and there, but it was never really explained.

The glitch I am talking about only happened to a few teams during Beta season of Team Wars in 2015 (probably around September). When a person from one of these teams logged out and then in again he/she would receive the coins for a war again ... and again ... and again. Some players reportedly got hundreds of thousands of war coins like this. SP never rolled this back.

This is how some players 'legally' got hundreds of lvl IX runes when they hit the shop, or were able to get 2 copies of each general at rank 5 when the lab was introduced.

Then there was another war coin glitch much later, in 2017, which allowed teams to get rewarded multiple times for a war when hitting 'search for a war' immediately after the end of the previous war. Some teams accidentally triggered it, while others abused it once they found out how it worked. SP has fixed this.

@ekto-gamat said in Mutant runes:

@ss13 said in Mutant runes:

@ekto-gamat , if I'm not mistaken, lvl X runes were only introduced a few months after team wars started...

I believe they were there already when wars started.
But memory is a fickle thing and I have no access anymore to any resources to check.
@C0ntr1v3d however, does.

X runes were introduced shortly before wars.

@jorgen-schultz mutant runes don't stand a chance when you have wildly overpowered relics like Hirom's Shield, Sherazar's Amulet and the like. A team with one of them on a top monster vs a team even with other purple relics is gonna lose. Mutants runes aren't going to help that imbalance.

I'm not spending mutant runes, not because I don't think it would add something new to the game...but because, the cost is overboard...& will only get worse, once the 2 weeks grace period expires...I disagree with SP's selling monsters for cash through gambling chests...& the monster week sales have been dreadful. Right now with mazes, progressive islands, races...you either spend all at once to get something ranked or not at all! Nope, hate all of it... won't even start on the nemeses chests . Everyone remember the fact that we were supposed to get some best orbs offers at the beginning of the year to start off the warmaster rotations..? I must've missed them all . & just like everything else, I don't hold out much hope with giving us any ongoing incentives to invest in mutant runes...my personal take... everyone else is welcomed to do & decide for themselves

@ss13 this ^^^. I don’t mind selling monsters for cash since that’s an easy decision to make. You want it yes or no. THIS NEEDS TO STOP :
Chests that are 95% losers. Only ok outcome is 100 cells for 325 gems. Any other result and you just lost potentially most of your gem cost. 325gems for 25 cells? Or 15 elementium? Disgusting

Maybe I'm a bit slow at times but I needed to see mutant runes in action to really grasp what they brought to the game and the full outlay of what it would cost me to upgrade my teams.
Now that I've seen, I can honestly say that I haven't a notion of moving with the times. I'll play for fun but my days of spending silly money on this game are over. I might craft lv6 or 7 mutants for team wars but my PVP will have to make-do as it is.

@stvrox I made 2 7 with life and one strength with live could see myself doing something wit an 8 and stamina for charmless for fun but that is it

@testcyp the chests are a joke. Over 300 gems to potentially get 25 element cells is a total waste of gems. The offers we get are a total joke. In fact I don't remember one offer that was actually value for money/gems

@jorgen-schultz said in Mutant runes:

I believe Mutant Runes can bring back an element of strategy in the game - if allowed. For me any element that can bring back a bit of fun, surprise, new experience is most welcome

Yes, I completely agree with you in theory

But the whole idea is killed (I am afraid) if it costs gems once more to unequip runes.

And here you hit the nail on the head! I have been REALLY enjoying the unequip runes for gold. It allows you to play around with different rune setups and to experiment as to what works best. I have been moving runes around like crazy during some wars until I settled on a certain constellation. I wish this would be permanent. I'm dreading the end of this event which then forces me yet again into a static setup. And yes, if this would be permanent, I'd probably start fusing a few of my precious X runes. I seriously hope that @Fox can bring the idea of rune removal for gold as a permanent feature to her bosses for consideration....

.... it still won't negate the need for acquiring more runes due to the high cost of fusing mutants, although I imagine that you might miss out a bit of whale spending. However I would also imagine that this could easily be compensated by increased spending of the remaining players!!!

@david-ml According to leaks, the only thing we will get is a permanent 25% discount on unequipping level 8+ runes..