@Carlos Can you clarify what affects the chance for a status effect to proc?

We actually had two questions come up in our team chat yesterday:

• One was if Precision/Blind/Daze/etc affected not only the chance for the attack to hit and deal damage, but also the chance for the status effect to stick.
• Second was if an un-resisted effect should always land on a monster with no immunity to said effect (assuming no modifiers to accuracy if that affects things)

I was under the impression that accuracy modifiers only affected the chance for the attack to land, but if the attack landed, that the chance for a status effect wasn't changed (so still a chance for no status proc on Hardened/Tough/Bulwark monsters, but it should proc on all other non-immune monsters).

Similarly, I had a couple of instances yesterday where a 100% Stun effect didn't proc after hitting a monster that didn't have immunity and didn't have a resist trait. I can't remember that happening before so wasn't sure if that's always been possible or if it was a bug.

Thanks!

Hi @karryt

1. This skill effect affects ONLY the first hit. I mean, the damage component of the skill. The accuracy you see in the skill box. (A low Earth damage with 50% Stun with precission will NOT be a low Earth damage with 100% Stun precision).

System does a first "roll" for the attack (XXX damage)
If it lands, will do the next "rolls" (50% stun in this case) in parallel

2. To assure I understood the question:
   I throw a Stun skill to a Blind immune monster with no protections. Will the Stun allways be applied?
   The answer is NO. All status effects should be at least 98% accuracy, so having a small chance of missing is always there.

I'm aware that some status effects have 100% accuracy. This will change in the future (doing a proper communication, no more "shady-rebalances")so we are consistant with our rules.

Hope it helped

@Carlos "I throw a Stun skill to a Blind immune monster with no protections. Will the Stun allways be applied?
The answer is NO. All status effects should be at least 98% accuracy, so having a small chance of missing is always there."

That is horrible.
so even if our move that stuns lands, and does damage on a non stun immune monster (not bulwark nor hardened nor tough) it may still NOT stun him? Why?

I'm aware that some status effects have 100% accuracy. This will change in the future (doing a proper communication, no more "shady-rebalances")so we are consistant with our rules.

Oh God please no! There is nothing more annoying than missing.
I have been trying to suggest that moves should not miss at all except if the attacker is under blind or daze.
There is nothing more infuriating then planning your attack wisely, using the right monster and all, then the move that is supposed to give you the win, misses and the opponent gets a special that wipes you out.

what is the point of that? it takes away the control from us and gives it to sheer blind luck, not skill, not intelligence, just blind luck. Choosing the right skill, attacking smartly, ranking our monster, giving it the right skills all becomes useless because the system decided you are gonna miss now. Sometimes thrice in a row! and we have been noticing more missing lately than ever.

that is not enjoyable by any means to anyone.

Missing should be removed all together. Bulwark, Hardened, Tough already counter the status effects. You want more variety and less generals and Voltaiks and Laomus, their traits already make status effects less valuable, so why make status effects even less valuable by giving them a chance to miss vs normal monsters?

Why not have all attacks except aoes always land with 100%. blind and daze and sunburn are there to counter it. and the traits are there to counter status effects. precision can be given a different role, such as giving immunity to blind and daze, is still useful for aoes, and can be made more useful by having status effects more accurate vs tough and hardened and bulwark.

Mmm Almost all conversations I had had been on the other direction; nice

Looks like you like deterministic outcomes (like chess, player actions lead to totally predictable outcomes) and that is good.
I prefer the other option; add a bit of "random". That when you hit the button, excitement increases for a moment; You know what should happen, but they may fail!

It is a complete different approach, and right now ML is working with the NON-deterministic version. We're adding a 98% accuracy to those skills, so in the majority of time the output should be the expected one.

Maybe it is my background, with a lot of Roleplaying and Warhammer, I've seen a goblin regiment defeat an Imperial vapour tank, or an arrow killing a Dragon in the old LOTR game (00, reroll 96, reroll 72. Critical E) And that was an amazing feeling.

So, in my humble opinion, a little uncertainty is nice.

@Carlos but we already have that with the missing. The moves are 95% or 90% accurate to begin with. This makes hardened and tough traits even more OP which I thought Sp was trying to counter.

The move itself may miss, out of no where. But now you are saying even the status effect may miss even if the move hits a non resistent monster. This crosses the line of little luck to making it unreliable imo.

Don't forget that moves with status effects usually have lower damage or higher cooldowns which balances it out enough imo.

For a game like this, missing due to "bad luck" is maddening. This is very much a strategy game (like chess), particularly in the competitive areas. A single miss in some wars can completely tank your strategy and give you an immediate loss. Random specials are bad enough, but put the two together and I'm inwardly screaming "WTH!!!!" way too much, lol.

@Carlos said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

Hi @karryt

1. This skill effect affects ONLY the first hit. I mean, the damage component of the skill. The accuracy you see in the skill box. (A low Earth damage with 50% Stun with precission will NOT be a low Earth damage with 100% Stun precision).

System does a first "roll" for the attack (XXX damage)
If it lands, will do the next "rolls" (50% stun in this case) in parallel

2. To assure I understood the question:
   I throw a Stun skill to a Blind immune monster with no protections. Will the Stun allways be applied?
   The answer is NO. All status effects should be at least 98% accuracy, so having a small chance of missing is always there.

I'm aware that some status effects have 100% accuracy. This will change in the future (doing a proper communication, no more "shady-rebalances")so we are consistant with our rules.

Hope it helped

Awesome, thanks for the explanation, this is how I thought it worked but always best to know for sure.

I didn't realize there was the 98% chance for status to hit so that's also good to know. I had two times that day where a status didn't proc when the enemy was unresistant and I wasn't sure if that was a bug or not.

So many other things to work on and you are planning to make further big changes. Please no. If it ain't broke then don't fix it!

If you want to make sensible changes then make ALL status effects be altered by traits. eg stamina devourers should be effected by bulwark. Don t give a 100% effect a chance to miss that is illogical for sure.

Then work on the other problems in fighting such as when a monster burns to death then the next monster turn is skipped. And when haste runs out then your voltaik loses next turn. Sort out slow and haste to actually be useful. These have been around forever. Why disturb the player base more at this time?

@ibobs72 said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

So many other things to work on and you are planning to make further big changes. Please no. If it ain't broke then don't fix it!

If you want to make sensible changes then make ALL status effects be altered by traits. eg stamina devourers should be effected by bulwark. Don t give a 100% effect a chance to miss that is illogical for sure.

Then work on the other problems in fighting such as when a monster burns to death then the next monster turn is skipped. And when haste runs out then your voltaik loses next turn. Sort out slow and haste to actually be useful. These have been around forever. Why disturb the player base more at this time?

I believe the turn order bugs are on his list of things to tackle but that it would be a big code/logic overhaul so might take a while to fix and hopefully go through QA.

I'm on the fence with stamina drain skills. Right now they don't seem to be affected by Hardened/Tough/Bulwark, and because of that they are the only reliable way to keep up with Generals/VIP. Changing that to be resisted like other effects would just amplify the discontent with how hard it is for those who don't already have ranked Generals as they lose the best tool to deal with them.

I do think Stamina Devourers is ridiculous though, AoE drain that never misses is just too much.

All this makes me want to buy a lot of VIPs and rank them to 130!

Stamina Devourers is not an Status Effect (Status Effects are those who "stick" and leave an icon), this is why the accuracy for it to land is not modified.

Being such a powerful skill, it seems fair for it to have 98% accuracy, as the rest of skills.

I dont know whats up but that 98% seems to be out to get me. too many times am I dazed and SD doesn't do anything, when was it nerfed ? it was never affected by blind or daze or other accuracy decreasing effects ?

@PredakingX it has always been affected by daze, blind etc.

@Carlos my main point was please don't change more at the minute. Let the game settle a bit. Get the library and PvP features stabilised. Let the player base calm down and catch up.

@ibobs72 Well said! Player base certainly needs time to calm down & catch up (very important points, SP). Teams are losing players after every unhappy change & teams are struggling to replace players...please try & fix existing bugs before rolling out new changes...player base is depleting...& I know this from the loss of players within my team. I can't seem to convince players to stay anymore & I'm trying to point out the positives in the game (sigh)...sorry for going off point

@ss13 said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

please try & fix existing bugs before rolling out new changes...

For Me, SD being 100% accuracy (the skill and the effect) is a bug.

@Carlos said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@ss13 said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

please try & fix existing bugs before rolling out new changes...

For Me, SD being 100% accuracy (the skill and the effect) is a bug.

That is its description though. If it is doing exactly what its description says. Changing that won't be fixing a bug, it would be a nerf.
That's why many of us invested in Thetys.

It is already counter balanced by her losing all her stamina, losing a turn.

I don't want to go vs a Voltaik or Zyla and have the stamina drain miss then get wiped out by them.

There are other ways to counter balance without changing that skill itself, please Carlos read my thread on improving Attuned and Energized traits: https://forums.socialpointgames.com/topic/1728/attuned-and-energized-traits-suggestions-to-improve

I agree that there are other priorities in game mechanics for players than making status effects more prone to miss. Slow and Haste are a huge issue. I know I always ignore any monster that relies on those and always skip any skills that have these effects because they are so useless.

You mentioned how it is fun that a dwarf takes out a gaint due to luck. That is not often the case, the scenario we will face is.
We are outmatched, we are facing a higher rank general or voltaik or whatever, we are relying on stunning them so they don't wipe us out, we moved runes to give ourselves a chance, then the stun that is supposed to save us, misses for no logical reason (non resistant monster), amd he wipes my team out with an aoe, that is not gonna make any of us content. I know if that happened to me I'd either break my phone or quit.

@Carlos...you guys designed it, so it's your "bug" to bear, lol...the SD griping will stop, once more level 130 Hydratilas come out to play in team wars...yes, there are other Sea/Water monsters that can contain Hydratila, but Cavenfish, Blob, Frostbite have been successful in dealing with Thetys...just that they're more expensive to rank, right...

Well we are well and truly off topic now...

FWIW, a solution to Thetys is to reduce the energy costs of some skills on Water, attuned, monsters. When C and UC restrictions were still a thing, countering Thetys was as easy as placing Sphyrnus on defence with a default move.

Please let us NOT lower the chances of missing. Otherwise the first genuine 450-450 draws in elite wars will be there soon. It already is nearly impossible to devise a sound defence with some rules as it is.

@Ekto-Gamat Can you explain that message a little bit different please? I didn't understood it and I want to.

@Carlos With many monster combinations available there almost is a solution to any kind of defence. Especially in a war with three legendaries. Often we can say that a certain attack strategy will be a garantueed 3 coins 'if no misses or specials'. Reducing the chances of misses will make the game less exciting and just 'solving a puzzle'. If you have the right monsters and the gems to move runes you will get 3 coins on attack.

There already are broken combinations of monsters that will work fine even with a few misses. As a bit of an extreme example I can point to the recent war of Resurrection of AMAB with Left Hand of God. A war in which half of the players on both sides could use a lvl 130 Demise in combination with a lvl 130 Zyla. The result was an extremely high scoring war (445-430).

^ That is fine and all, do not decrease missing. But please do not increase it either especially on status effects.

"Reducing the chances of misses will make the game less exciting and just 'solving a puzzle'. If you have the right monsters and the gems to move runes you will get 3 coins on attack."

I disagree. For me excitement is coming up with a plan and executing it, not that I might miss or not. Solving a hard puzzle is exciting for me, random blind luck is frustrating.

For mid and lower teams switching runes is not so simple and affordable. The scenario where you all have Zylas and Demises of near speed is something we can only dream of. If I am gonna spend my few gems to switch runes to face a team that outranks me, whose defense is not so easily penetrable as it is for you, and then end up missing when I shouldn't (a stun deciding not to land on a non resistant monster) and getting wiped, that is totally messed up.

You are the top of the pack you rarely get severely outmatched, your main focus is wanting your defense to hold, ours is surviving an attack and getting away with 2 coins at least.

We already struggle with misses as is. An aoe that is supposed to freeze or stun sometimes misses 2 out of 3 monsters completely. Making that the status effect may miss even if the move hits is reducing the possibility even further, and makes all status effects moves much less reliable.

presence of traits, the fact that the moves with status effects are rarely 100% accurate and less than 95% for aoes, often have high cds or lower damage, already balance them out.

Current missing to hit ratio is already good. Please do not make it worse. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Do we really want to make generals and voltaik more op? their traits already resist status effects, yet we want to make status effects even less accurate?

But if you must then make it such only higher ranked monsters may have reduced accuracy on lower ranked monsters. I don't want my 110 to miss stunning a 130 that will turn and wipe my entire team out. But sure would appreciate that 130 missing a monster or 2 of mine if it does an aoe

@ss13 said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@Carlos...you guys designed it, so it's your "bug" to bear, lol...the SD griping will stop, once more level 130 Hydratilas come out to play in team wars...yes, there are other Sea/Water monsters that can contain Hydratila, but Cavenfish, Blob, Frostbite have been successful in dealing with Thetys...just that they're more expensive to rank, right...

Hah, how many folks do you expect will have 130 Hydratilas to use? I don't think that's a solution, and even the Sphyrnus example that @C0ntr1v3d brought up I don't feel is particularly great either. Needing a specific monster to counter another, while better than nothing, is the least wanted answer in my book. So instead of just seeing all Thetys you see all Thetys or Sphyrnus, hardly a great gain in diversity.

Getting more Attuned monsters that are eligible in Thetys wars would help, and merging Attuned/Super Attuned wouldn't hurt either. I still think there is no skill on the same level as Stamina Devourers though.

As for status effects missing more often, I didn't read it as @Carlos saying all of a sudden all of them would start missing a lot more, just that some bugged ones may be brought in line with all others (I don't know exactly which he's talking about though).

Honestly I'd prefer having the status stick 100% of the time if the attack lands and the enemy is unresistant, but it happens rarely enough that I'm okay with how it is now.

I was taking about Stamina Devourers (the skill, not the effect)
Single target skills, accuracy = 95
Area Target skill, accuracy = 90
Area Stamina Devourers, accuracy = 100

Being a no-brainer turn 1 skill with no chance of missing, with (almost) no counter that affects a lot the rest of the battle.

I AM NOT DOING IT but, what would be your (sincere) reaction to adjust the accuracy of the skill to 90% (as the rest)?

@Carlos said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

I was taking about Stamina Devourers (the skill, not the effect)
Single target skills, accuracy = 95
Area Target skill, accuracy = 90
Area Stamina Devourers, accuracy = 100

Being a no-brainer turn 1 skill with no chance of missing, with (almost) no counter that affects a lot the rest of the battle.

I AM NOT DOING IT but, what would be your (sincere) reaction to adjust the accuracy of the skill to 90% (as the rest)?

I personally would like it and think that is what it should have been from the start since that is in-line with almost every other AoE skill in the game.

As a curiosity, is there any other AoE 100% stamina drain skills at all?

I know there will be a lot of opposition to that change though and do understand that it is kind of unfair to make that kind of change after it being status quo for so long, to the point that I'd feel if the change was made, some compensation (in war coins maybe?) would be appropriate.

The skill however will still be top tier even at 90% accuracy, just not as over the top as it is now compared to other similar skills.

@karryt I do not expect a flood of Hydratilas (seen fully ranked ones in some profiles)...but I don't quite understand why Thetys' SD is such a problem...at the end of the day, forget Hydratila, what's stopping those of you who are opposed to Thetys' SD from ranking Cavenfish, Frostbite & even in some cases Caillech...what does Caillech's special do,lol..?..Frostbite has the same base speed as Thetys, but both Cavenfish & Caillech are faster than Thetys...by the way, Thetys has been around since the early days of Team Wars, any nerf of SD is preposterous... thankfully, @Carlos has said that he is not going to do it (well, that's how I read it, anyway)...poor Thorder got nerfed (hasty on haste) because of complaint after complaint, when in reality, had he been left alone, he might've been a reasonable counter to Voltaik...but then...he is breedable...so not ideal, right...I'm with @Ekto-Gamat, please don't reduce chances of missing...apologies for any misunderstandings

@Carlos said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

I was taking about Stamina Devourers (the skill, not the effect)
Single target skills, accuracy = 95
Area Target skill, accuracy = 90
Area Stamina Devourers, accuracy = 100

Being a no-brainer turn 1 skill with no chance of missing, with (almost) no counter that affects a lot the rest of the battle.

I AM NOT DOING IT but, what would be your (sincere) reaction to adjust the accuracy of the skill to 90% (as the rest)?

Yikes. I can imagine the reaction.

Personally I don't think that is the answer. 90% accuracy means a 10% chance of the attack missing and a 10% chance that the drain doesn't happen. In exhange for Thetys herself being drained. Far too risky to use in war. She would be benched (in our wars at least).

@C0ntr1v3d said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@Carlos said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

I was taking about Stamina Devourers (the skill, not the effect)
Single target skills, accuracy = 95
Area Target skill, accuracy = 90
Area Stamina Devourers, accuracy = 100

Being a no-brainer turn 1 skill with no chance of missing, with (almost) no counter that affects a lot the rest of the battle.

I AM NOT DOING IT but, what would be your (sincere) reaction to adjust the accuracy of the skill to 90% (as the rest)?

Yikes. I can imagine the reaction.

Personally I don't think that is the answer. 90% accuracy means a 10% chance of the attack missing and a 10% chance that the drain doesn't happen. In exhange for Thetys herself being drained. Far too risky to use in war. She would be benched (in our wars at least).

If you mean 10% chance of no drain on top of the 10% chance of miss, I don't think that's what he was suggesting (could be wrong though). From what @Carlos said above I don't think stamina drain is counted as a status so wouldn't be affected by status accuracy.

And I'm not sure why having her AoE denial have the same chance of missing as basically every other AoE denial makes her the more risky option.

Not having much insight on fully leveled wars, how do you think the strategy would change if SD was modified?

I believe they already have made the adjustment. I was in PVP this morning and my stamina devour hit two out of three of the team I was attacking. It totally ruined my chance of winning up against a 130 team when I had a 110 team. I was wiped out because of the miss.

The other thing and I know it is off topic but I am seeing teams in team wars starting first when they logically shouldn't and repeated misses when my team attacks but end up dead because the next moves they get three specials in a row.

Yesterday I had a Timerion get it's special three times in a row during the battle, but out of 5 battles I did not get one special. Fix other things and leave Thetys alone. She does what she is suppose to do.

@Suzznee said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

I believe they already have made the adjustment. I was in PVP this morning and my stamina devour hit two out of three of the team I was attacking. It totally ruined my chance of winning up against a 130 team when I had a 110 team. I was wiped out because of the miss.

The other thing and I know it is off topic but I am seeing teams in team wars starting first when they logically shouldn't and repeated misses when my team attacks but end up dead because the next moves they get three specials in a row.

Yesterday I had a Timerion get it's special three times in a row during the battle, but out of 5 battles I did not get one special. Fix other things and leave Thetys alone. She does what she is suppose to do.

Are you reporting these as bugs? They've stated that changes should be announced and not ninja'd going forward so if things are indeed different then it's probably unintended.

For the going first issue, were you tied in speed? Maybe related to the changes they were making for PvP. I'm actually not sure if it was intended to be only for PvP or for all battles in all modes.

Timerion for whatever reason seems to get his special at a much higher rate according to my anecdotal experience

@karryt I haven't reported anything yet, and I have given up on sending to support as I get messages back that there is no bug that things are working as intended. Like the chat screen having a huge space under it. So I just give up reporting as they don't seem to listen anyways. I had come looking to see if anyone else had had a similar problem today as I have never missed with stamina devours and all of a sudden I had one monster with stamina still and two with one drained the other with half drained like something went weird on it. Of course I was wiped out as the monsters on other team were all 130 with higher runes.

On the team wars I had a bit higher runes and they went first. This has happened several times lately. It is not just Timerion getting multiple specials during team wars. Team mates have been noticing the same thing.

@Suzznee Make sure to post in the Bugs section of the forum with as much info as possible so @Carlos or other SP employees can see if they can replicate.

Unfortunately the in-game support is not very good for gameplay type bug reporting as the reps sometimes don't seem to even know how the game works...

@karryt energy drain effects have two accuracy checks. The first, to see whether the attack hits. Then, to see whether the drain occurs. So for example, Blob or Galante can hit with their full drain attacks, but still not drain the target. It has cost me coins on several occasions - and those are 95% accuracy moves.

90% accuracy denial moves are far too risky in high level wars. You won't find any of us in my team ever opening with eg Freezing Shadows - it can and does miss - unless we command turn order 1 and 2 and the monster at 2 has redundancy denial or ohk as a safety net.

A 90% accuracy denial with two chances per monster of not effecting the denial, while still leaving the target with the ability to mount a special, and fully draining Thetys itself... that wouldn't get an attack plan green light. Risk levels are unacceptable.

@C0ntr1v3d said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@karryt energy drain effects have two accuracy checks. The first, to see whether the attack hits. Then, to see whether the drain occurs. So for example, Blob or Galante can hit with their full drain attacks, but still not drain the target. It has cost me coins on several occasions - and those are 95% accuracy moves.

90% accuracy denial moves are far too risky in high level wars. You won't find any of us in my team ever opening with eg Freezing Shadows - it can and does miss - unless we command turn order 1 and 2 and the monster at 2 has redundancy denial or ohk as a safety net.

A 90% accuracy denial with two chances per monster of not effecting the denial, while still leaving the target with the ability to mount a special, and fully draining Thetys itself... that wouldn't get an attack plan green light. Risk levels are unacceptable.

Interesting, so the stamina drain effect seems subject to a similar die roll to proc like Carlos indicated status effects do, which makes sense I suppose. I use Frostbite a lot and see his drain miss sometimes (usually on a Thetys) but never paid too much attention on whether the attack hit or not. The AoE freeze/drain does no damage so that's not a good way to tell post fact, haha.

Since most AoE denial moves are 90% accuracy, do you normally just go for single denials? I find the differences in strategy at the different levels pretty interesting.

@karryt yes. 95% is far preferable. Part of why we move runes a lot in hard wars is to engineer the optimal turn order taking into account the available tools, to minimise or even eliminate risk.

@C0ntr1v3d said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@karryt yes. 95% is far preferable. Part of why we move runes a lot in hard wars is to engineer the optimal turn order taking into account the available tools, to minimise or even eliminate risk.

Awesome, thanks for the insight! Without the reliance on AoE denial, does that lead to the defense consistently getting turns, and you folks figure out how best to absorb it and continue attack gameplan?

Gotta say, I do enjoy battles that aren't over in a turn, although ones taking like 10 minutes are kind of a drag

@C0ntr1v3d said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@Carlos said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

I was taking about Stamina Devourers (the skill, not the effect)
Single target skills, accuracy = 95
Area Target skill, accuracy = 90
Area Stamina Devourers, accuracy = 100

Being a no-brainer turn 1 skill with no chance of missing, with (almost) no counter that affects a lot the rest of the battle.

I AM NOT DOING IT but, what would be your (sincere) reaction to adjust the accuracy of the skill to 90% (as the rest)?

Yikes. I can imagine the reaction.

Personally I don't think that is the answer. 90% accuracy means a 10% chance of the attack missing and a 10% chance that the drain doesn't happen. In exhange for Thetys herself being drained. Far too risky to use in war. She would be benched (in our wars at least).

I agree with contrived, that would make her a liability.

If her skill accuracy is to be reduced then she should NOT be drained too.

this is similar to Master of Pain of Barbatos. the skill is 100% accurate but he pays with it with his life. she pays with all her stamina (losing a turn)

Other ways to balance it:

• Make attuned and energized more valuable as suggested in my other thread so Frostbite, Blob, Frostwrath, Sphyrnus and others with these traits can counter her to a degree. Energized resists a % of stamina drain.

• Make her skill drain the value 140 stamina not 100%. This means one can counter her with a stamina rune \ team stamina rune which are useless otherwise, and then energized monsters can counter her( provided that the % of extra stamina is increased to 25% so they have 175 stamina and get left with 35 opposed to current 168 and being left with 28 which is not enough)
  This, though, makes her less effective vs Voltaik and Zyla

@karryt ... it depends

I doubt that thetys would be seen as a "liability" in any given situation if this change were made. The fact that that stam drains are unresistable is still going to make her the best choice and minimize the risk of a large number of situations. Maybe not as many as it currently does, but the situation as it stands isnt terribly acceptable and results in her complete dominance and overuse. It's compounded by the fact she's featured so prominently in the still extremely limited library rosters. Which is why this topic keeps coming up again and again and again. Something absolutely has to be done. I think the proposed change is very acceptable.

I think another acceptable solution is to leave it at 100% but make stam drains resistible like any other form of denial. This doesn't target thetys specifically and targets all creatures that benefit from the fact that this is the only unresistable form of deny in the game.

@C0ntr1v3d

10% chance of miss and 10% chance of miss of the effect with no chance of it being resisted by any VIP, general, etc is still going to give better probabilities than trying other denies that could both miss and be resisted by those generals at a far higher rate. Have a hard time seeing how this would make her a "liability"' in any and all situations. Some, perhaps. And that's good. There should be some, otherwise the creature is overpowered and something (like this) needs to be done about it.

@Suzznee I thought this was just me so I held off on saying it, but the race monsters in PvP defense have been unleashing specials on me left right up and down, out of 10 battle vs a balthasar and/or learnean, I was hit by a special from one or both of them 8/10 times, effectively wiping ledo form the face of the earth, along with burning shallinar into nothing, leaving a stamina deprived thetys to battle by her lonesome. This is getting old, and finding people using those lvl 115 is a blessing... or so I though in comparison to the 130 sea I face.

Looking at severa recent AMAB wars that were high level sea wars (vs seed and cracks) and the problem is entirely evident. Thetys is used on offense almost exclusively, because it almost eliminates any and all risk almost by itself. Whereas in something like dragon theres actual variety to the rosters. Pretty unacceptable and hard to believe anyone could even try and argue that small amounts of added risk would dramatically change this.

I don't see any high level sea currently - but I've seen the logs before and it's the same thing. Thetys thetys thetys thetys * 100... token frostbite, token cavenfish. A small change may make her used less than 100% of the time. But it'll still probably be closer to 100% than 0%.

@PredakingX said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@Suzznee I thought this was just me so I held off on saying it, but the race monsters in PvP defense have been unleashing specials on me left right up and down, out of 10 battle vs a balthasar and/or learnean, I was hit by a special from one or both of them 8/10 times, effectively wiping ledo form the face of the earth, along with burning shallinar into nothing, leaving a stamina deprived thetys to battle by her lonesome. This is getting old, and finding people using those lvl 115 is a blessing... or so I though in comparison to the 130 sea I face.

We just started a new war. The opponent had two equal to mine and one lower. Their Dracontium got two specials in a row and their Learnean got a special right off the bat. I hit with Thetys stamina drain and their Dracontium hit me with a special then I came around had to refresh and got hit when he came around again with a second Special and then Learnean hit me .. I never had a chance. I am getting really tired of all these specials. This isn't fun anymore ....

@DrJ yes, and you can see the fights in which the drained opponent specialled. And that is the point: the risk of a special remains, and Thetys herself is out of action until she can recharge. If she also has a 10% chance of missing plus a 10% change the drain won't take hold, she would go from being overused to being benched, in favour of Blob's single target 95% accuracy drain. There must be a middle ground. Several options have been suggested.

@C0ntr1v3d

The risk of a special is so insignificant that it doesn't deter near uniform use of thetys.

Anyways - Mystery also has a single target stam drain and does other cool stuff. Frostbite can bring leech...there are several options. So you're telling me these awesome creatures that collect dust would see the light of day? Sounds pretty awesome as opposed to thetys, thetys, thetys.

@DrJ said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@C0ntr1v3d

The risk of a special is so insignificant that it doesn't deter near uniform use of thetys.

Anyways - Mystery also has a single target stam drain and does other cool stuff. Frostbite can bring leech...there are several options. So you're telling me these awesome creatures that collect dust would see the light of day? Sounds pretty awesome as opposed to thetys, thetys, thetys.

I guess you didn't see my comment and another about repeated Specials recently in PVP and team wars. It is like the AI is trying to fix Thetys taking someone out.

@Suzznee

I believe it's a collection of people dealing with anecdotal evidence based on small sample sizes. My own anecdotal experiences contradict them.

The continued uniform use of the creature also contradicts them.

I for one would very upset with a nerf now on a monster that I've spent near a years worth of war coins on (still just rank 4) plus the real money I put out to get proper runes for her. To diminish her value so greatly after the fact would have me for one seriously reconsidering any future purchases with $$.

@PredakingX said in Question about Status Effect Procs:

@Suzznee I thought this was just me so I held off on saying it, but the race monsters in PvP defense have been unleashing specials on me left right up and down, out of 10 battle vs a balthasar and/or learnean, I was hit by a special from one or both of them 8/10 times, effectively wiping ledo form the face of the earth, along with burning shallinar into nothing, leaving a stamina deprived thetys to battle by her lonesome. This is getting old, and finding people using those lvl 115 is a blessing... or so I though in comparison to the 130 sea I face.

I didn't check to see if things changed, but if I'm remembering right PvP is supposed to have double the chance of a special coming up, from 5% to 10%. Doesn't explain the streakiness of the game though, I'm kinda curious how they generate their random numbers as the rune crafting streaks often seem to defy the odds too!