Yup.

He's awesome.

Who's getting him? :P

I will but still wondering which one, though I am really thinking to get The Fever Scatterer.

I'm looking at the Light or Metal one. I like the Strength from Beyond in those elements better. Him having Bulwark makes him even better. My Nox shrunk about 6 pant sizes.

Would be interesting to have the dark one ready for the Dark Wars.

Can't believe people are seriously thinking of buying this.
You do realise he will be nerfed in a few days?

I think he is too OP. Demise is already too much. This - is ridiculous. Power creep? More like power surge. @carlos ... this is too big a jump.

I think those extra turns aren't necessary. Personally, I wouldn't mind if they were replaced with a better hit.

@MarshallTheBeef I really like the look of him, I decided on Plague Carrier and even better he is not going to storage.

Great design, Great skillset, but I'm F2P. I am aware that monsters only available to P2P should be better however, this is a wee bit much ? A team of these, light, metal and dark weapon, regardless of rank, can take over dark wars.

Nemesis monsters are starting to get out of control. I do realise they should be better than other monsters ... but they should not be better than VIPs. They should not solely determine the outcome of entire wars by their presence or absence.

Strength from Beyond is a borderline broken mechanism. Congrats SP on giving it to 3 more monsters!

Looks very familiar to Rootziel design.

@Ekto-Gamat said in Samael - Strength from Beyond Makes a Return:

Nemesis monsters are starting to get out of control.

Agree, but I feel things will get much worse. Since there is already huge backlash from changing existing monsters, SP only course of action is to make an even more OPed monster. If SP would spend more time doing internal play ability testing, things would not be in the state they are in. The 2 minutes of "Well the game doesn't crash too much" testing is obviously not cutting it.... for quite some time now.

@Ekto-Gamat : I hope I won't request for refund my money back if they decided to change its stats, and offer 500 gems in returned.

@C0ntr1v3d Every game will always suffer from power creep or as I like to call it, "The Arms Race." All pun intended, especially when it comes to monsters like Burotgor. If each new monster doesn't do something cool, why would you try to get it? Nemesis monsters even more so, since they cost money.

Is there maybe a trick how to unlock skill group 4 before ranking ?

@C0ntr1v3d

Since you are asking SP to nerf some of the skills of this monster. So are you suggesting people or your team not to buy this monster at the moment ?

Are we going to continue to do this nerf request everytime when a powerful monster is released ?

SP has all the time to discuss and test the new monsters before releasing to the public, once they released it and put it in the shop. They should not try to nerf or modify things unless it's a bug fixing.

People paid huge money to buy what SP advertised, how do you feel when you have spent money to buy something and later on the manufacturer decided to cancel or delete something from the product that they have advertised.

@TheOne said in Samael - Strength from Beyond Makes a Return:

People paid huge money to buy what SP advertised, how do you feel when you have spent money to buy something and later on the manufacturer decided to cancel or delete something from the product that they have advertised.

What if Lamborghini decided to pull their engines out and replace them with cheaper models?

@Kaiju

Umm I don't see why you tagged me in the response. I disagree the nerf of the new monster skills in my post response

@TheOne I was trying to agree with you as well, but saying that I think people who pay money for expensive cars, expect those cars to perform a particular way. They would be unhappy if their sports cars got nerfed.

@Kaiju said in Samael - Strength from Beyond Makes a Return:

@TheOne I was trying to agree with you as well, but saying that I think people who pay money for expensive cars, expect those cars to perform a particular way. They would be unhappy if their sports cars got nerfed.

Exactly and I agreed with you 100%

@TheOne

No, I have bought it and recommended it to my teammates too.

You see, a monster can be excellent without being broken.

Like Demise. People like you howled when she was re-balanced. But, hey, she still dominates.

Like Harusami. People like you howled when after months and months of being in buffed state he reverted. Still the most versatile Dark monster (or, was).

Like Voltaik. People like you howled when he was re-balanced and I bet most people struggle to remember he used to be more OP.

I can bore you with many examples.

This may not be of interest to you, but I am actually more keen to have a viable and enjoyable long term game than being able to proudly display my great big rock hard Samael.

Power creep is inevitable. Power surge is something to be avoided or things spiral quickly out of control.

A very fast and very strong monster with life approaching that of Ouros, with Bulwark, resurrection, mass healing, immunity to energy drain, ability to clear negative status effects, give precision, re-energise and buff and give an extra turn, with OHK hits.. is too much.

@C0ntr1v3d

I agreed that the monster is good, but OP or not is up to some debate and I'm not going into that discussion.

My main concern is that you cannot simply just ask SP to nerf something from the final product after they have already started selling them to the public. If they put too many good skills to this monster, they should learn from this experience and do better next time.

I paid over $720 Canadian dollars to get 18 of them. I buy what I see, what I like and what SP advertised. Your request to nerf this final product was asking SP to screw those consumers that has already paid for this monster. You are just telling SP or all manufactures it's okay to take away all the good stuffs anytime they feel like it even after people already paid for them.

This is not about the change that you proposed will make the game experience better or not. This is strictly about the legality and the obligations imposed by Law. It's illegal to take away the features that I've already paid for it.

Besides I don't even have an option to request my money back from SP ? Do you think that's fair to the consumers and a healthy experience to the paying gamers ?

@TheOne if you read the post you reacted to, through a non-defensive lens, you will see that I did not call on it to be nerfed - although, frankly, I think it warranted. I made my view clear that I think this is too much and that it amounts to power surge. A phenomenon that has destroyed several games and that I do not want to see happen here. I would very much like the monster designers to hear that warning and hopefully bear it in mind.

In relation to post release changes - absolutely and as a matter of Spanish law you are entirely entitled to a full refund if a post purchase change is material, in exhange for returning the monster.

I agree that it is too much for 1 monster and hope that it won't go further on an inflation path for the next. In fact I was disappointed by its extra-turn move, i was hoping his skills would be centered around its resurrection abilities: could have mixed the resurrection with an extra turn (self or ally); that would have been an outstanding move already. The damage boost is unnecessary. Why would Samael need to resurrect and heal allies while with this boost/extra turn he can decimate an entire team?

@C0ntr1v3d said in Samael - Strength from Beyond Makes a Return:

@TheOne

No, I have bought it and recommended it to my teammates too.

You see, a monster can be excellent without being broken.

Like Demise. People like you howled when she was re-balanced. But, hey, she still dominates.

Like Harusami. People like you howled when after months and months of being in buffed state he reverted. Still the most versatile Dark monster (or, was).

Like Voltaik. People like you howled when he was re-balanced and I bet most people struggle to remember he used to be more OP.

I can bore you with many examples.

This may not be of interest to you, but I am actually more keen to have a viable and enjoyable long term game than being able to proudly display my great big rock hard Samael.

Power creep is inevitable. Power surge is something to be avoided or things spiral quickly out of control.

A very fast and very strong monster with life approaching that of Ouros, with Bulwark, resurrection, mass healing, immunity to energy drain, ability to clear negative status effects, give precision, re-energise and buff and give an extra turn, with OHK hits.. is too much.

Totally agree. I have had a problem with nemesis since the start because I anticipated it's gonna get worse and worse... and here we are :D

this one has the same trait that made VIPs special. Resurrection that was Uriel's trademark and Demise's skill.

this could have been balanced out by a less strong trait for example.
and what Contrived is calling for, is not a nerf. It's asking for balance.

if the next nemesis has like an instant kill aoe skill, you bet we will ask for a "nerf".

New monsters are supposed to be desirable yes, but they are not supposed to make everyone before them obsolete.

Would you choose Nox over this? no
would you choose harusami over this? no
would you choose nishant over this? no!

nemesis were supposed to be counters for generals.

if that's true then this one should have an immunity to burning and bleeding, something that penetrates nishant's shadow form. etc.. not skills from light monsters.

where are we going from here? Earth nemesis had 3 in one trait, this has bulwark, next one artifact?

Wait for the new nemesis to come "whoever's Nemesis", Ability : When this monster enters the battle all opponents lose 100% of their health

@loony123 Next up is light nemesis. Her name is Llum. I'm looking forward to her. Hopefully, she won't get better than Plague Carrier, because he's on the borderline. Just like Flamerion before he got Turned into a useless monster he is now.

I went with the Light weapon one. Gonna run Speed, Strength, Life.

Plan on using the DD Extra Turn, 100% resurrection, Massive Light and 40pt Dark Aoe.

Would be have been unique if his resurrection was like:
"Self - If Samael dies during the next 3 turns he resurrects with 100% health and Double Damage"

I went for the metal version. I like his 0 stamina skill on the extra turn. This skill is good against general theyts.

@C0ntr1v3d said in Samael - Strength from Beyond Makes a Return:

I think he is too OP. Demise is already too much. This - is ridiculous. Power creep? More like power surge. @carlos ... this is too big a jump.

This. Clearly.

I couldn't help myself. Got him. Slapped 2 team speed and a life on the metal one. Even at 105 he competes with the 130's. He's certainly fun to use.

I got burned on the first two as they are only sitting around being medicare gold cows. Any new monster is pretty much useless until you can rank them to level 120. At $20, $30, $40 a pop, I can not justify spending $200, $300, $400 or more for a monster to be able to use it. Especially since the next overpowered monster is a week away. The lab killed the idea of releasing new monsters. If SP really wants people to start to take interest in new monsters, they need to create new leagues of team wars and PvP where monsters are limited in both monster level and run level.

@Keith-Romberg Which 2 do you have? I've been burned too so I am really debating this one.

@Keith-Romberg There should be a PVP league just for non-legendaries/unranked non-legendaries.

For what I have and have gotten use out of:

1. Earth Hydratila - haven't used him once. When he changed to Earth from water it hurt.
2. Water Hydratila - used him a lot. He's been very strong.
3. Water weapon Lucifire - used him quite a bit and he's been very good.
4. Light weapon Samael - hoping to test him out this Dark war. I forsee him (any Samael) getting a lot of play though.

I skipped out on Warthak when they removed his Extra Turns. The trait wasn't enough of a buy trigger for me. Though looking back I think his trait may be one of the best out there.

My biggest gripe is they aren't getting put in books fast enough. Hydratila landing in Sea has been nice, but the rest only get play when the base element is chosen. :(