Most of them are so OP, that we will all be forced to buy one eventually just to compete with other - richer - players.

When the likes of Warthak and Samael regularly start appearing in the dungeons (like Hydratila and Lucifire already do) it will be very difficult to even complete those.

If they appear in the dungeons, just kill them before the other two monsters. It shouldn't be a problem if you have the correct runes.

Personally i want them to try to counter the 130s i do not have but have to face. My goal for the nemesis are the same as the VIPs, 3 of each group, enough for a team.

Btw what does OP mean?

@Nynaevelan said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

Personally i want them to try to counter the 130s i do not have but have to face. My goal for the nemesis are the same as the VIPs, 3 of each group, enough for a team.

Btw what does OP mean?

Over Powered or Original Poster

Samael has one game breaking skill. "Samael Warrior". That precision or damage boost... Has to go away.

It won't, get used too it

@Dave-Orr we shall see. I hope you are wrong ;-;

VIP were fine, they were powerful (Hydrok...) were arguably worth the money people put into them, and yet didn't break the game, Nemesis drop with skills that are literally built to counter one monster. Lets face it, Hydratila was because Sp was tired of thetys nerf complaints, every other nemesis was an effort to keep the theme going. I really wish Sp would at least TRY and put some effort into any monster that is available for gems and not just the P2P monsters.

They are REALLY powerful
And they keep on getting better skills/trait after each release
The last one, samael, is especially OP :

• Improved Demise's signature skill
• Ressurection skill, which is the only thing that Uriel has, and Samael has 2 !! of it
• BULWARK trait, which is IMO the best trait if not on par with Warthak's trait (immune to all denials)

Luckilly the OP ones, warthak and samael aren't in any book YET...

The idea of creating a monster to out do an existing overpowered monster is killing the game. It is like getting a cat to get rid of a mouse, then getting a dog to get rid of the cat, then getting a lion to get rid of the dog, then getting an elephant to get right of the lion, etc. Where does it stop?

SP really needs to come up with an idea for resetting and/or leveling the field again. Relics might be a way, but I have very little hope SP will implement it right since they have no concept of testing. I really like the idea of level limiting leagues, but again I doubt SP will implement it.

At this point there are way too many run away trains for SP to deal with. They cant stop them all, so they only deal with the one that will cause the most 'perceived' damage.

@PredakingX What do you have against Hydrok? He's a great monster.

@Szymon-Zin Uhhh, Im not sure if you are joking or not. Hydrok is nothing in comparison to his VIP brothers and Sisters. For starters, each of the VIP can be placed in at LEAST the Top 5 ( even 3) of their respective element, Not Hydrok. He is behind ( to name a few) Thetys, Caven, Caillech, Frostbite, Frostwrath, Sphyrnus, Hydralita, (varuna?), Blob, and Even the other Water heavy Hitter, Thetys Pet. He brings nothing new to the table, no utility, nothing that any other water cant counter, along with the fact that his special skill animation hits the WHOLE enemy team but only deals damage to one target. He only has his trait going for him, his name is "the Forgotten" for a reason

@Clackers OP is the nature of any game. There will ALWAYS be an arms race. By design the game designers will add ways for paying players to have an advantage. If you want to be at the top, you may need to join them. If you are happy where you are at, then you can probably continue playing for quite some time without them. I would think that you should take it as a challenge to see if you can beat VIPs and Nemesis monsters without having one of your own.

Yes they are,
It's ridiculous how much they rush things. They have to keep dangling new stuff in front of us, let things settle down for a while!
Ok soon all elements for nemesis will be done. then what? nemesis for nemesis?

@Sam said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

nemesis for nemesis?

Bingo. VIPs for dealing with OP standard monsters. Nemesis for dealing with VIPs. Demigods for dealing with Nemesis'. Immortals for dealing with Demigods. Gods for dealing with Immortals. God Killers for dealing with Gods. God VIPs for dealing with Gods. God Nemesis' for dealing with God VIPs.

@Sam said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

Ok soon all elements for nemesis will be done. then what? nemesis for nemesis?

That is the nature of an arms race, but I agree that they should let things settle. Settle, however, doesn't make new sales.

@Kaiju said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

@Sam said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

Ok soon all elements for nemesis will be done. then what? nemesis for nemesis?

That is the nature of an arms race, but I agree that they should let things settle. Settle, however, doesn't make new sales.

Then again, continuous bugs and issues does not encourage repeat buyers.

@Keith-Romberg said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

Then again, continuous bugs and issues does not encourage repeat buyers.

That may be the case, but I have one player on my team who still buys them. I have another player who before she maxed out had gem subscription of some sort. So there is a LOT of tolerance for bugs.

@Kaiju said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

have another player who before she maxed out had gem subscription of some sort.

Gem subscription? First time I have heard of that in the last three years of playing.

@Keith-Romberg said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

Gem subscription? First time I have heard of that in the last three years of playing.

She never described the mechanics. She might just have given herself an allowance to buy X number of gems each month.

@Keith-Romberg said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

@Kaiju said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

have another player who before she maxed out had gem subscription of some sort.

Gem subscription? First time I have heard of that in the last three years of playing.

I remember there being one in DC, I do not remember there being one in ML. I believe it was 25 gems a day for $19.99, I think it was for a month or so. And it would let you renew it when it was over. It was not offered to everyone and once you didn't renew you lost it. Then they cancelled them and took them away from everyone when your time expired. I could be wrong on the length of time though, it was been several years since they cancelled them in DC.

@PredakingX No I am not. A rainbow build Hydrok deals Very nice damage and is incredibly durable, and thanks to his trait he gets through most of the denile you throw at him. My Hydrok is level 115 and he is capable of taking entire teams out on his own. Kaih and Scarr force a 1 speed 2 strength build if you want them to perform as good as they possibly can. However, unless they can wipe a whole team with 1 AOE, they won't do as good as Hydrok will in a 1v3 battle (which tend to happen when your denile doesn't land) because their their builds make them squishy; they got no way of protecting themselves either. Also, if enemy gets to use their special skill, your Scarr/Kaih/whatever's chances of survival are very low. Hydrok will soak it up, shield himself and keep going. He may not be the best, but he definitely is a very solid monster. Especially for defense.

@Szymon-Zin Look, All Im saying is, for $20 he isnt nearly worth it in my, and most of the communities opinion. Using him in a water war puts yourself at a disadvantage immediately and he doesn't really have much other places to go. Also, if your Hydrok is Soloing teams, 1v3, I cant help but wonder if the match up was unfair, runes, monster lvl, or otherwise. All I'm saying is, there are way too many good water monsters in this game ( and my roster) to justify his purchase in bulk.

@PredakingX it's usually 120s with 8s at least. So no, he wasn't in advantage there. Perhaps you don't know that , but with ranking life stat gets the biggest increase of them all.

At lower level combat, I tend to agree with Predaking.

But, at higher ranked combat, I agree with Szymon.

Like Osur, Hydrok comes into his own at the point where level based life increase surpasses level based damage increase. In Osur's case it is due to heals and regen; in Hydrok's case it is due to his big shields. They were made to be ranked.

But this is now well off topic.

@Clackers Well. Nemesis monsters are strong, but not OP (excluding skills "Perfect Petroglyph" and "Samael Warrior") they can be beaten, especially if you can possess them; which is very easy except for Samael where bulwark complicates it and Warthak because he's immune to it. Still. Normal monsters can beat them.

@Keith-Romberg said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

The idea of creating a monster to out do an existing overpowered monster is killing the game. It is like getting a cat to get rid of a mouse, then getting a dog to get rid of the cat, then getting a lion to get rid of the dog, then getting an elephant to get right of the lion, etc. Where does it stop?

SP really needs to come up with an idea for resetting and/or leveling the field again.

As long as players continue to buy, why should they? They will continue to bring more books, more skills that are resisted only by a small group of monsters, more nemesis monsters.

That will change only if profits go down.

I always thought a game developer should try to attract a large community, and it is much easier to find 1 million players who spend 10 bucks a month than to find 50.000 players who spend 200 bucks. You have to attract whales somehow, and you won't do that without a large community. (And whales will always spend big money.) But it seems SP is targeting the whale group, and only the whale group, recently. I don't know, maybe this is indeed the best way to generate profit, even though it is frustrating for the small-budget players. And I'm afraid the number of players is shrinking due to these changes, based on the remarks I read in chats and here.

What I would do is this: Bring back the old prices in team shop, introduce a budget deal that allows to get 30 diamonds a day for a month (say for 10 bucks), make a few more monsters breedable. Try to make the active player base grow. The whales will still have the VIP and nemesis monsters at level 130, but we'll at least have more than Vadamagma

Just had a battle with (2) Samuels and a Hydrok. Completely ridiculousness. The zero stamina and zero cooldown skills are just plain stupid. The next nemesis might as well have a "Instant Win" skill....

I just faced a Samael in Pvp...

A question for game designers @Carlos @Fox , I don't know who is responsible for this. Why does the most powerful move in the game (Samael Warrior) cost 0 stamina on a monster that has bullwark, the highest life in his element, 2 resurrections skills [edited]...You used to make a big deal out of Uriel having resurrection ability, then you make a monster like this. What is the thought process when you design this?

I understand wanting to give paying players the upper hand but this is beyond ridiculous.

To answer OP's thread : yes.

I think planned obsolescence and powercreeping combined with the lab (buy 18x the same monster and he's 100% worthless a few months later) are hurting the game's longevity, gameplay and diversity.

@tintum I agree with most of that.... but, what AoE Resurrection?

My mistake, I edited.

People are not buying 18 of a monster to rank him up. They are using elementium from the fraternity event to rank them. Having everyone on the team buy a couple gems packs is a super easy way to get a 130 nemesis. Once again SP forethought is paying off.

@Keith-Romberg said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

People are not buying 18 of a monster to rank him up. They are using elementium from the fraternity event to rank them. ...

I was going to say that anyone who is willing to spend (how much? Over $300) on a nemesis monster are entitled to rule the game for as long as it lasts. I hope they enjoy it, because that to me would be a lot of money for something completely virtual.

You don't have to go up against him in PVP you can choose another group. Lots of Theytys, Laomu and 130 other. Ha ha ... choose your poison.

so GLAD about this movement with 0 stamina that can counter Thetys. Too many " free " 130 Thethys in the game. If you choose to not pay, good. But if by paying a good quantity of money, you get better monsters, just assume it. It is completely normal. Free players are giving almost nothing to the company and business. A company without income would disappear and therefore bye bye to the game.
So if you are the typical player who doesn't want to spend money and get everything for free, forget about it. Pay and get Samael, or don't. But please stop complaining

The first three Nemeses are very strong, but they are supposed to be very strong. They have some very interesting moves, which separates them from VIPs, but does not necessarily make them stronger than VIPs. Regular monsters can still beat them.

Samael is a different thing. He gets the dreaded and overpowered 'Teleport' mechanism AND resurrection skills which so far was limited to Uriel (and Kassia) AND other good moves. To make it worse, one week later there is an elementium Frat Event so that the vast majority in elite teams will have him at 130 by now, AND they put him in the much used Winged and Spirits books. At elite wars Demise already completely dominated the books she appears in. To give 2 recent examples: Left hand of God scores 440 coins against my team but STILL LOSES with a 4 coin margin in a Demise war. Power of Fun scores 366/375 against Valkyrie but STILL LOSES with a 3 coin margin.

Samael will dominate even more (on offence) in whatever war he can be used, for the simple reason that he is far more powerful than Demise. I am not interested in playing wars that should be completely built around the prospect of an attack from one OP monster. I am interested in wars where the right combination of skills and runes from a wide variety of monsters are used to put up a good defence or to break one.

If wars at elite level will only be about smashing teams with fewer Samaels/Demises/Voltaiks/Zylas OR fighting travesty wars with both teams almost scoring perfectly, then there is something wrong. Bringing back Comons, Uncommons and Rares to the war restrictions may help already.

@Ekto-Gamat said in Are Nemesis Monsters ruining the game?:

Bringing back Comons, Uncommons and Rares to the war restrictions may help already.

I agree, but it will never happen. Once SP has made a decision( for better or worse( usually worse ) ), when have they ever changed and corrected things? Never.

@Keith-Romberg No, commons, uncommons, rares, are not part of the future of Monster Legends. They were part of the game in 2014 when it was still a free-to-play breeding game.

Now, it is about boasting how many monsters you collect, and which ones have the best stats. Only Legendaries can compete - and SP charge money for those!