https://forums.socialpointgames.com/topic/3393/combat-change-possession-v5-8
This is going to make possession VERY interesting!!!

Well, I have always thought it was weird that we could still control a possessed monster, and make it just a turn skip denial by recharging. Particularly since defence under AI control is already at a huge disadvantage. So it makes sense.

But in terms of game (im)balance this is a very big deal.

One thing that must be done, pronto, is to consolidate the different types of possession to include Hacked and Glitched. Hackster is already a dominant defence monster bypassing possession immunity. Bad enough that this guarantees denial. Far worse when it will also cause your hacked attack monster to attack your team.

Oh, and, prepare for a very wide and extreme range of strongly held and expressed views, lol.

I'm not in favor of this change, even if we can't recharge we could at least choose what skill we'd use. It's especialy important for mid- lower players who hardly ever get to attack first and may have built their monsters specifically to bypass possession.

They'd better not homogenize all forms of possession into one thing because I know many people spent months ranking up glitch (and then they put the nemesis in his books -_-) and hackster for this specific reason, we'd just use Nishant's pet if they were all the same.

Bleeding is the same as poison yet immune to bleeding is a brand new trait (celestial). SAme thing for megastun, monssters immune to stun ( which is a completely broken status as of now btw) could be megastunned from the get go, that's why many have built up Brontes.

Edit : since the COmmunity manager posted in a locked thread, this change is happening, check the game updates section if you haven't already.

@David-ML Well they say possession is 9 tenths of the law...

Think they need to unify all possess skill first so possess is like glitch corrupted , hacked , rooted etc and fix the possess immune trait first

last time i checked it wasn't working with glitch , and sure this will make def more powerful

@Haka-Taka exactly! I have seen several monsters immune to possession, but they are not immune to hacked or glitched. If they are going to do this then they need to either fix the monsters immune to possession to be immune to all these traits or fix the dang differences.

Well Glitch is meant to bypass possession!! WHat else does this monster have? I'm very much against unifying everything, this will piss off a lot of players who invested in monsters for specficic reasons, just like making stun immune monsters immune to megastun now would piss off players who ranked up Brontes.

Things would be easier to change if there wasn't any lab but the amount of time and resources it takes in a regular team to rank up a monster does not leave room for such changes.

Hopefully 3rd time lucky...tried to post before, but 2 threads got locked...anyway, why does the AI need to be so op-ed..?! The hasn't been an even playing field since the introduction of the lab & other silly introductions to especially the now ridiculous PvP! For goodness sake, my team only ever matches against extremely weak teams or extremely strong teams, hardly ever do we get matched against our peers..! Under possession, the AI generally recharges or misses the attack on an ally... enough already with messing up the skills, traits, & so many aspects of the game!

@tintum he's meant to by pass possession, but not lately...in fact, of late, he's Corrupted even by a fellow Glitch!

@David-ML Why start a thread without actually telling us what the changes are? OK, I see now what the changes are.

@Clackers https://forums.socialpointgames.com/topic/3393/combat-change-possession-v5-8

@ss13 Glitch has always been able to corrupt monsters immune to possession, including himself if the enemy has one as well. I assume that's why they created a different name for it instead of just calling it "possession". Backpeddling on this now would be utterly ridiculous.

Don't forget Jasastur is immune to Hacked, Glitched, and Reboot. Most people forget this.

I guess this will mostly affect high lvl pvp, in Gold III it's rare to even see a speed rune so this will only change the order in which you roll over the defenses, been doing pretty well against lvl 100 teams with two 85s and a 60

Thanks a lot for ruining my strategy. I've been leveling up monsters with possession for this very reason, and now battling them is impossible. Also, if you are going to make changes like this, can you at least fix other things the AI does that make no sense at all? I'm speaking specifically about monster like Lord of Atlantas that have a refresh skill. The AI almost always makes this the first move which does zero because there is nothing to refresh.

Although I understand the change I'm a little said too, now my favorite Monster Shallinar isn't that wonderful anymore

@PizzaFreak123

I don't understand. You have been leveling up possession monsters? Then surely this benefits you now that they have all just got a major buff?

@Marianne-van-Es Self skills will still be a huge advantage, luck will be an annoying factor but at least it'll give you a chance of not wiping out your team or boosting your opponent.

This makes possession too OP, unifying all forms of possession into 1 will screw over players who ranked up monsters who could bypass it like Glitch, Monster D.Vice and Hackster.

I use Shallinar too, and Barbatos with 2 extra turn skills to bypass even Mommy's possession, this is definitely not a change for the better and it will make offensive/defensive strategies less interesting, giving more and more power to the AI which seems to be the shift lately in this game.

Then they might come up with another horrible way to "balance" things...I'm sorry but since the lab was created, people in regular teams can't adapt to the monthly shenanigans. It takes a year for some of us to rank up one monster.

This change makes sense.

@tintum said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

Well Glitch is meant to bypass possession!! WHat else does this monster have? I'm very much against unifying everything, this will piss off a lot of players who invested in monsters for specficic reasons, just like making stun immune monsters immune to megastun now would piss off players who ranked up Brontes.

Things would be easier to change if there wasn't any lab but the amount of time and resources it takes in a regular team to rank up a monster does not leave room for such changes.

Hackster now rule pvp def due to his hack skills , don't you think without any immunity to hack and with new update this will make those monsters op and hackster will be the new samael for def

@ss13
Hi SS13 ,, Regarding lock ed topics ,, automatically game update section topics are locked only moderators can comment , and his comment was moved here , Sp need this section for only news discussion is here

and i locked the other possesion thread as it is old and David make new one

@Marianne-van-Es said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

Although I understand the change I'm a little said too, now my favorite Monster Shallinar isn't that wonderful anymore

Shallimar could be possessed by Glitch. I found out one day and it wasn't fun.

@Suzznee said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

@Marianne-van-Es said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

Although I understand the change I'm a little said too, now my favorite Monster Shallinar isn't that wonderful anymore

Shallimar could be possessed by Glitch. I found out one day and it wasn't fun.

i think Marianne was referring to extra turn move - inner fire -- so even if enemy goes first and possess your shallinar all you do is use inner fire then attack again ,,, same with barbatos using his 2 skills same way can get you away even from 2 turn possess

@Haka-Taka The ability to recharge or use an extra turn move balanced hackster's power on defense.

I've been working on mine for 6 months and he's not even at 115 yet, which means I have yet to even be able to use him as a main denier in Pvp (where I face all 130 bases constantly) or war.please understand we are not all in an elite team with infinite resources, I wouldn't have bothered if he just had possession as NIshant's pet was tremendously easier to get and has a way better trait. This makes possession and possession immunity too OP.

There were ways to beat all 130 opponents with a bunch of carefully chosen lower level monsters when they lead with possession, this is not possible anymore and once again it gives more and more power to the AI.

Seriously, why does the AI get to pick a random skill on my turn..?! Why? This change will only make things more difficult for those with lower ranked monsters...as it is, possession misses higher ranked monsters...just give us an auto button already & we can stop playing completely! (Sarcasm!) Possession doesn't deserve the extra helping hand & neither does the AI, frankly!

Does SP realise how many times the possessed monster under the AI misses the attack on it's ally/ies..? How many times, the AI recharges itself under possession..? Now the AI gets to choose a Special if it's available, on my turn..? Sort out the hackers, the attacks on fb, what other self created mess SP developers have created, especially on PvP, & stop playing around with skills & traits!

@Haka-Taka said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

Think they need to unify all possess skill first so possess is like glitch corrupted , hacked , rooted etc and fix the possess immune trait first

last time i checked it wasn't working with glitch , and sure this will make def more powerful

I disagree. That's what makes those monsters and skills better than normal possession. Without the special version of it, it would be a major nerf to Glitch, Hackster, etc.

As for this change, I think it's a good thing.

@Clackers said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

Don't forget Jasastur is immune to Hacked, Glitched, and Reboot. Most people forget this.

No he's not. He's immune to possession, bleed, and nightmares. Same as Krugbo and Faugnar.

@tintum said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

@Haka-Taka The ability to recharge or use an extra turn move balanced hackster's power on defense.

agree . now somehow all possess skill are somehow balanced but this going to change
either def will got op with those monsters like hackster
and i agree that if they unify all skill it will decreasing of the monster value

so maybe we should think harder about a balance , we don't want another broken monster

Wouldn't it be fair to only replace the AoE hack/corruption with the normal possession and keep the Solo attacks as they are ?
This way at least it gives a chance to lower lvl teams against all the ranked Hacksters in top leagues, because with this change i'd just close the window the moment i see a Hackster play before me.

@Darvys
Donot even try hackester base , usually he has 3 x sp rune and supported with 6tsp

@Boris That means ALL kinds of possession.

I must say I fail to understand why the people in charge of this game are trying to find ways to break it each month to come up later with a "solution" that's worse than the thing they initially tried to change, progressively worsening the game experience each time.

Bypassing possession bases was a very interesting strategy for lower players with self or extra turn moves, this is gone now and under AI control. (Btw @Haka-Taka you're the only NIshant's pet base I ever lost against I think, props to you )

Hackster was not broken as he was, he relies on status effects entirely and is in only one book, the same as timerion who can immobilize him for 2-3 turns (even if possession works as described above, space time protects your monsters, then CA...). HIs trait is immune to magnetizing which is probably the worst in the entire game. There are other metal monsters who "just" have aoe possession like mechamancer and the suicide robot whose name I forgot, practically nobody uses them . You don't have to break the meta to fix it later on.

I guess I'll rest my case, yes as someone who has worked on this monster and other possessers I could benefit from this change as well on defense but I have really 0 interest in it, and unifying immunities will just screw over players who invested in specific monsters which isn't fair either.

Please take this into consideration before implementing this change @Tyroz

You know exactly what kind of teams this will create in the coming weeks, for those who are not yet broken by the dark nemesis ...

I let it sink in for a while I still think its an understandable update but it made me think about what @Carlos said a while ago i think it was in a post from @Sam that they want to make the AI more smart in choosing the attacks, now I wonder what kind of consequences this has for this, I'm no programmer but it looks complicated

Honestly, I wish they would stop messing with skills and fix the things that need fixing. PVP, Team Wars, there are a ton of monsters with bugs. Focus on these things then if you got everything broken fixed then maybe look at revising monsters.

It irks me to no end that I spend money and time ranking a specific monster for certain traits and SP comes along and says nope that works to well lets mess it up. I am not spending money nor will I spend any more till they clean up the messes they already have made and stop messing with things.

@tyroz So what about Instead of

The random skill will target the "opposite" target
-If originally the skill targets enemies, it will hit allies. If target allies, it will hit enemies.
-If a skill target the caster, the target won't change (will work normally)

We make the range wider so possessed monster may attack the enemy so it will be a gamble 50 % between allies and enemy

And another more realistic suggestion is to wait for now ,,, Relic is coming and it is very big change to game and it will affect our war tactics heavily , so when we see how they work and if they have anything related to posssess we may suggest another balanced solution for all players

In principle, I am not against this change. It will spice up battles which I don't have a problem with...

... but I also agree with the sentiments that something needs to be done about the hacked/rebooted etc. skills as it makes them too OP. Maybe introduce another set of immunities, not sure, but it can't stay as it is!

@Boris It was said here by Carlos https://forums.socialpointgames.com/topic/1927/thought-on-the-new-trait-abomination/7 that abomination trait was supposed to be immune to all type of possession. However it is not the case currently (bug?) but with this coming change this should be clarified and corrected if abomination was supposed to be the ultimate protection against possession.

This makes sense because Hackster should definitely be more powerful. It’s a hamster!

@Clackers said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

@Boris That means ALL kinds of possession.

Not true!

@xargul said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

@Boris It was said here by Carlos https://forums.socialpointgames.com/topic/1927/thought-on-the-new-trait-abomination/7 that abomination trait was supposed to be immune to all type of possession. However it is not the case currently (bug?) but with this coming change this should be clarified and corrected if abomination was supposed to be the ultimate protection against possession.

I remember this post, but I think it was a misunderstanding. After all, "hacked" is not a "possession." If it was immune to all of them, it should say "immune to confusion" or something.

@David-ML

It doesn’t sound like they executed properly, but it sounds like that was supposed to happen with Jas. And seems the most likely thing that will happen... kind of the trend. These newer creatures are crushing creatures of the past giving people strong incentive to get newer creatures. Whether that be hackster to take advantage of this, or creatures designed to power through him.

I bought mine knowing there was a chance this all got blended. It’s a Linux geek hamster, I didn’t care it wasn’t in any books haha. I make all my investments knowing there’s some chance the value of those investments can change, something rare in this community it seems. But it doesn’t seem that’s going to happen and the people who have invested huge chunks of resources have a point this is unfair to them. Now there aren’t as many, so you can probably stomp all over them without concern far more safely than all the thetys lovers. We’ll see...

Now Hackster aside, there’s other creatures that get some really huge benefits here. Creatures that bring possess and possess resist got hit from both ends and this turns those types into legitimate defensive plays. Nishant’s Pet is a big one, and I’d argue that his team shop price no longer reflects his value in the game. (Meaning he’s better than a lot of generals now, not that current team shop prices aren’t outrageous). He’s gonna be able to defend well against himself, even bigger versions of himself. Eggeater, mommy, junior, etc... even creatures like galante and and mystery get sizable bumps.

I do agree with the change on the basis that it does make sense, gives the AI some realistic chance, etc. I will also say that to me I was loading up on possess and possess resist before this because I felt just the increased variety in the library setting bumped its value. This sends it through the roof. So I’m not sure if it’s “necessary” for game balance or whatnot, but I still see it as a good, sensible change. I may have some bias based on my roster choices.

@Boris said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

I remember this post, but I think it was a misunderstanding. After all, "hacked" is not a "possession." If it was immune to all of them, it should say "immune to confusion" or something.

Well, for reference, skills that give monsters immunity to possession (as opposed to native possession immunity) protect vs possession, hacked, rebooted, and glitched IIRC.

This is a great change. I suggested it to support months ago.

I like it as well, posession finally makes sense on defense.

On a related note, I was playing in dungeons this morning, and I possessed an AI monster - -he just recharged. Is this also a new update?

@Clackers said in Combat Change: Possession (v5.8) (Game Updates):

On a related note, I was playing in dungeons this morning, and I possessed an AI monster - -he just recharged. Is this also a new update?

Quoting Tyroz: "Normally, a possessed monster will choose between any attack + recharge (1 of 5 available options)"

@Clackers exactly, already said it in a post...& the AI generally misses attack/attacks on allies under possession...but trust me, the AI will choose special after special for your own monster to kill it's team under possession! The AI was never meant to be better than a team operated by a human...this will make it so much harder to earn coins for already expensive team shop monsters. This game is being geared towards hard core p2win players, not even p2p anymore...(sigh)

@tintum I so agree with you. I used to love trying pvp when you could try to win. Now I cant get any fair opponents invariably all their monsters have lvl 10 speed runes