Hello Legends,

I have a theoretic question for you and would like to know your opinion.
We usually recieve a lot of complaints from players that have been kicked out of the team during the team race. It is especially disheartening to get these tickets from players who really helped the team to progress (e.g. spent gems) and at the end, they get kicked out. Support can't help those players as it is allowed to kick players whenever during the Team Race.

What if we introduced condition that no player can't be kicked out of the team in the second half of the Team Race?

While I have no experience of having players kicked during a race, we have a closed team, I think it would be a good idea to introduce a rule not to have a player kicked in the second half. However, I think it should not just be only for the second half, the rule should be if it is the second half AND if the player(s) qualified for individual rewards. Or maybe over a certain number of points towards the teams points.

mmmm this can be a problematic too . but those kicks happens usually in Hopper teams when random players are added and kicked i wish you can solve the hopping problem in the first place -- root of all this -- and we already had 2 suggestion before

1- strength the rule to participate in race . only 2weeks old and 50 coin is nothing maybe 2 months and 20 war - win or lose --

2-race reward depend on team Mp , so you group 20 team with high Mp in one group and the #1st can get the monster ranked lv 115 while on another group with low Mp the #1 will get it at level 100 so there is no use jumping as it will reduce the reward

Those 2 suggestion were mentioned and discussed here in details

https://forums.socialpointgames.com/topic/3273/reforming-team-to-win-team-races-now-a-must

@Haka-Taka said in Team race feedback:

mmmm this can be a problematic too . but sure it is better than players being kicked but those kicks happens usually in Hopper teams when random players are added and kicked i wish you can solve the hopping problem in the first place -- root of all this -- and we already had 2 suggestion before

1- strength the rule to participate in race . only 2weeks old and 50 coin is nothing maybe 2 months and 20 war - win or lose --

2-race reward depend on team Mp , so you group 20 team with high Mp in one group and the #1st can get the monster ranked lv 115 while on another group with low Mp the #1 will get it at level 100 so there is no use jumping as it will reduce the reward

I am not understanding what this has to do with the issue. Whether it is a hopper team or a regular team, how does this affect who and when players are kicked?

@Nynaevelan
i think those kicks happens when teams is just formed and re accepting players randomly and after they pay gem and push team they are kicked and another are added and so on .. those suggestion is to make de\re form teams for race less appealing or no use at all to do so .. so if no one jump real team will be formed and no random kicks happens in real team

and just a thought just came to my mind what if some **** leader decided to kick players just before the 2nd half start ? it will be same problem and not enough time to join another team ,, this problem should be fixed by preventing jumping in the 1st place

@Haka-Taka said in Team race feedback:

@Nynaevelan
i think those kicks happens when teams is just formed and re accepting players randomly and after they pay gem and push team they are kicked and another are added and so on .. those suggestion is to make de\re form teams for race less appealing or no use at all to do so .. so if no one jump real team will be formed and no random kicks happens in real team

and just a thought just came to my mind what if some **** leader decided to kick players just before the 2nd half start ? it will be same problem and not enough time to join another team ,, this problem should be fixed by preventing jumping in the 1st place

Ok now I understand. Wouldn't making the team private also reduce the chance of random hoppers? It won't help in the kicking scenario but it should reduce random hoppers from joining the team.

@Fox said in Team race feedback:

What if we introduced condition that no player can't be kicked out of the team in the second half of the Team Race?

Provided there was also a condition that they had to have xx points, and not be sitting on 0 doing nothing. At the very least qualified for individual rewards.

There are teams out there that are private but let people in get them to use gems and kick them out again after they used gems on an epic quest or pvp quest. I think thats what @Fox is talking about but there is some issue that If you cant kick people out after halve way and they stop participating because they are not willing to make an effort anymore or don't attack in war because they are only on the team to race.
Let me give an example I helped a friend to win a race and this was a team with a couple of level 30 to 50, and some mid level players my own team was winning so I could help this friend out together with an another strong teammate. because there where smaller accounts on this team we had to push them to do the group things we where there for breeding epics doing pvp crafting runes and ranking up but we needed to the smaller accounts to their part too we didnt ask them to gem things but they needed constant pushing (never going to do that again) and the only incentive we had is the kicking for some of them to force them to do their part to get the monster or let them behave some of them asked us constantly to gem nodes so I had to say things dont ask that we know what we do and when to gem the quest then they asked again please gem this quest, only way to stop them from asking is to say dont ask again or you will be kicked i know this sounds harsh and again I never want to do it again as i said but you can't let a view teammates hold the others hostage by not doing team quests and not behaving. you wouldn't believe how many people think because you are higher level that they dont have to do anything.

The time limit alone wouldn't be enough, as was stated above there are sometimes legitimate reasons to kick someone out. Qualification for individual rewards is far too easily achieved to suffice as a safeguard, perhaps a certain % of the total points earned by the team ?

I personally think that this solution is not going to work. Sorry to say this but I agree with one of the moderators. Some leads can still boot people off before the start of second half and then you have the same problem again. I know many players want to win a race and hence they jump from team to team until they find a team that is winning. However, some leads might not like that simply because this player randomly jumps in just to collect the reward. Other players have put in a lot of effort and gems to win the race. Also, some leads can be a **** by taking players in and make them spend gems then kick them out before the race ends. In other words, the lead is using this new player just to win the race. Idk to me I think the solution is to completely banned players from leaving a team and getting kicked once the race has begun. I think this will be ok as the race is just 7 days, so you will have the same player for 3 wars and the whole race. Idk if this is going to work but this is just my suggestion.

I think should be disabled to kick and leave team during all race.

@Dewei said in Team race feedback:

I think should be disabled to kick and leave team during all race.

Disagree yesteday before halve way a team mate returned who left the team because she was to busy with work in your scenario she couldnt be in any team not even her "home" team

I agree with a few here that the problem of team jumping and new teams forming needs to stop. The rules for the race and creating new teams is way to easy, to many teams think it is ok to start a new team. We are against a team right now that was a race team, when we jumped ahead of them half their team has disappeared and there are new players on the team.

To may people want to win the monster so when they bounce from team to team and get kicked for inactivity who is at fault. I don't know about teams kicking for wanting gems, but we kick for no participating in wars as well as the race. It is not fair to all of those who have spent a lot of money and/or time to win that monster to have one join and then do absolutely nothing and still get a monster.

Fix how easy it is for race jumpers to continually jump from team to team before stopping a team from kicking someone. We have had this discussion about locking someone in during race, problems will arise. People want to leave for different reasons, busy life, no longer interested in game, find a harder/easier team. They get kicked for various reasons, we for instance still expect 5/5 for war. If they haven't been active during wars after x amount of time we kick them. But we also expect everyone to participate in a team race. Isn't "Team" the key word here? Why should someone with very little or no activity in participation win a monster because he joined the team only to win the monster.

We had 10 members jump ship because we have not won the race in the past and they ran off to join teams to win the monster. It is disruptive to all the teams losing players because they are team hopping. If you fix team hopping with higher requirements and fix the uneven matching then there will be no need for those who are whining they got kicked off a team.

Based on the comments we have gotten so far it seems that the best option is to "lock" the team at the start of a race, both from hoppers and kicking, at least in the short term.

As a team leader I struggle during the races most of all. Kicking a teammate is never something I want to do but to kerp the team active it is necessary. During races it is very important that players are active for the team to succeed. I am okay with not kicking during the second half. I think it would be more appropriate or better to not be able to kick someone that is qualified for individual rewards. Unless they have broken terms of service I think this is fair.

@David-P.-Georgi said in Team race feedback:

As a team leader I struggle during the races most of all. Kicking a teammate is never something I want to do but to kerp the team active it is necessary. During races it is very important that players are active for the team to succeed. I am okay with not kicking during the second half. I think it would be more appropriate or better to not be able to kick someone that is qualified for individual rewards. Unless they have broken terms of service I think this is fair.

That is the keyword, Qualified. If they are doing nothing well. The other problem with closing or locking is what happens when we need a new player for war because someone leaves or is not active? If they can't leave we are stuck with non active players for war.

Another option would be to shorten the race, do we really need it to run 7 days? We're halfway done, and some teams are at 40+ laps.

@Bruce-Hamilton said in Team race feedback:

Another option would be to shorten the race, do we really need it to run 7 days? We're halfway done, and some teams are at 40+ laps.

Quite true, the race could be reduced to 3 or 4 days, especially if they keep the requirements from this race. While it still has too many nodes with one person breeding epics, it is much better than the last two. I still say they need to remove the requirements for one user to breed anything over an Uncommon.

Another wild idea inspired by dragon city races ....swapping team and individual rewards so the race become more players based not team

so 20 player in one group and with easier -- much easier tasks -- they earn points and there is 4 node reward " no star ,1,2,3 stars monster " so this allow more than 1 player in the group to earn the new monster

at the same time player team is grouped with another 20 team and those individual point count to total team points and at the end of race the team are ranked depending on total score of 30 member and the team reward will be E.food,gold and cells

@Haka-Taka Like it, the individuals in the groups could be more equal in mp and/or level and you dont have the disrupting influence that racing has on some teams. but I would like also the same rewarding as in DC everybody can get the big price after 15 rounds but nr 1 gets more say the extra Legendary and the elementium. It could also be leveled like the prices in 72hour

@Marianne-van-Es @Haka-Taka if we are going to add features that the DC races has then I agree with @Marianne-van-Es, it should have the option to get the prize monster after a specific set of laps. While at the same time there are some prizes for the team based on the group effort, for this part I would like to see the prize as either elementium or war coins distributed evenly amongst the team members who were on the team the first half of the race or better yet only those members who qualified in the individual race portion.

@Marianne-van-Es @Nynaevelan yes i meant that many player can get the 1st reward as they reached the 4th node or we can use laps as DC .

@Fox The core of the problem as many others have already pointed out, is that you can easily cheat yourself into getting the race monster by running a low level secondary team with a 'baby account'. Before I suggest any possible solutions, I will show you how prevalent this habit is by showing you a couple of race logs of a top 100 team:

During this race, no team even tried to stick with their main team and all 20 teams went to their race teams!

Now here, the team must have realised just in time that all other teams have gone to their race teams and just idled to get past the 14 laps.

Keep in mind that these are race logs of a top 100 team!!! They recently annihilated us and we are currently ranked 38th which leads me to another problem that the race is causing - skewing the ranking in favour of the cheaters as they obviously don't win wars with their main team while racing elsewhere.

We had a long-term player jump during the current race and he messaged us how stress free it is in a race team, you just idle to lap 14 without any competition and pocket the race monster. So I replied that he must feel a great sense of achievement and why he isn't looking up the monster hack where he can replace skills with zero stamina special moves. He'll then win every battle, stress free! Oh hang on a second, that behaviour gets you banned right?

Now to a possible solution:

The problem is that the race laps are way too hard for low level teams. How can craft runes if your rune temple is still locked. How can you even attempt breeding multiple epics if your breeding guardian isn't built or has no stars?

I propose a league system for the race. Low level teams will only get a Lvl 100 race monster as first prize, but completing nodes will a lot easier. Base leagues on total MP of team. Gradually increase rewards and difficulty until you get the Lvl 115 monster in the top league.

This should solve most if not all the problems as there is no point jumping into your race team if you only get a Lvl 100 race monster out of it!

I sincerely hope that you will give this suggestion some serious consideration!

@TCML-Lead said in Team race feedback:

Idk to me I think the solution is to completely banned players from leaving a team and getting kicked once the race has begun. I think this will be ok as the race is just 7 days, so you will have the same player for 3 wars and the whole race. Idk if this is going to work but this is just my suggestion.

I like this idea, because it is the only solution that I see that will stop race hopping. It is kind of heavy handed and I can imagine that the general gaming population will react quite negatively to it and thus it will probably die a quite death in this thread.

@Kaiju said in Team race feedback:

I like this idea, because it is the only solution that I see that will stop race hopping.

Not really, they'll just hop between races and check logs, looking for a team that consistently wins.

I like the length of the race gives me time to do other stuff that needs to be done

@David-ML I agree with you. The root of this problem is creating new teams (tons of them) with baby account. I kinda like your idea, but I am not sure how hard it is to carry it out. SP really needs to take a look at this forming new team issue and if can, completely stop this from happening again. I know this might offend many people, but I honestly think this is the best way to save the race (keep the race event going). I propose another suggestion though: Why not up the race requirement to "win at least 15 wars" to enter the race? The current 50 coins requirement is literally pointless. So a race usually comes in about a month to a month and a half. So a NEW team needs to win at least 15 wars to qualify for the race. This is not easy and hence can stop the problem of forming extra teams, which lead to so many other issues in team race. Just my thought.

Guys, the leagues are still in the play.
I was just wondering if you would be against an idea of baning kicking out players as it could be quite drastic and I can imagine unwanted in some situations.
Just probing the waters here.

@Fox for me its unwanted to many situations that you need to kick or except

@Nynaevelan said in Team race feedback:

While it still has too many nodes with one person breeding epics, it is much better than the last two. I still say they need to remove the requirements for one user to breed anything over an Uncommon.

I do not think that will happen, but one can always dream.

I like the idea of increasing the minimum required number of wars won for race qualification to eliminate this new race team creation issue once and for all.

As for the suggestion that no player can be kicked out during the second leg of the race, I disagree, as while it may work fine towards race issues, it may also impact other factors like the need to boot someone for not performing in team wars.

@Bruce-Hamilton said in Team race feedback:

Not really, they'll just hop between races and check logs, looking for a team that consistently wins.

But it won't take place during a race. You would need to be IN your race team by the time it starts.

@Fox said in Team race feedback:

Guys, the leagues are still in the play.
I was just wondering if you would be against an idea of baning kicking out players as it could be quite drastic and I can imagine unwanted in some situations.
Just probing the waters here.

I am against it! You are taking away the whole point of having team leads and coleads to make a decision for their team as well as the choice for a member to leave or find a new team if they choose to. As outlined in many posts the problem is the starting of new teams and team jumping. If that was corrected then there wouldn't be an issue or people getting kicked from a team unless there was a good reason.

@Fox This issue is the race rewards design.

My team is #2 with 24 laps in current race. Team #1 has 50 laps. Teams behind me are very close. We spend a crap ton of gems (thousands) to get there. And the reward is a base legend, some food, and a bit of elementium

This causes all kinds of bad behaviors with the teams. People hunt for the #1, because nothing else matters. The rewards for #2 and beyond suck IF you've done a bunch of laps.

Team #1 - should get the special monster(s). That's well understood.
#2-x should get a RANKED version of their monsters based on laps.

Do that and there is no incentive to boot people from teams. Or for people to create low level 'mini' teams to migrate to for race.

I ABSOLUTELY want to retain the ability to kick free riders from my team. It would be fair to take team points away if you kick a member to dis-incent people from kicking unfairly. I only want to kick the dead weight, and I make it clear when they join they have to help out.

Also - In addition to fixing the reward structure so high performing down level teams don't get screwed in every race, consider allowing kicked members to take their progress with them. And for the team that kicked them to lose the progress that member contributed. Now that kid who spends gems will be very valuable to the team that picks them up. And teams will think twice about kicking someone who made material contributions to progress.

After this race experience - I probably will not seriously race anymore until rewards are fixed. When I look at the gems and effort put in to do 24 laps and make the #2 spot - it's simply not worth it. I can just get barbatos eggs for 249 gems next time it's on sale.

Yep, I wholeheartedly agree that the rewards distribution of the race is extremely unfair. Anything below 1st is not worth the gems and effort. Any team in second place with >20 laps gets left with a sour feeling of having wasted a ton of gems for next to nothing. This also needs addressing!

In regards to the topic of this thread, I am not completely against locking players into teams, but it needs to be tied to minimum performance in both, the race and team wars. Say any member with a minimum of 2000 points and 3 attacks in previous war can't be kicked, however, the player should always be free to leave by himself if he/she so desires....

.... I still think that much of this problem would be solved by preventing the creation of race teams in the first place!

@David-Bjurman-Birr absolutely spot on! The reward is another main reason why you see so many jumpers! And it really sucks when you spend hundreds to thousands of gems just to finish 2nd with a level 100 monster!! Why not be like the 72 hour challenge? #1 team gets the 3 star monster, 2nd team gets either a slightly lower reward ( 1 or 2 star of the race monster or the other monster) and so on. This would help a lot!

@TCML-Lead I did suggest in a previous race discussion to give a two star race monster for 2nd place and a one star for 3rd. And in addition to the set elementium reward for your final position in the race, you should receive a bonus of two elementium per lap completed. That would give teams in any position in the race some incentive to continue to work on completing more laps!

Agree to reward per lap. Different teams do different expenses receiving the same reward now...

I think the Team Race and the Mazes should be combined.

@Clackers said in Team race feedback:

I think the Team Race and the Mazes should be combined.

Explain please.

@Nynaevelan I meant put Team Race mechanics into the Maze event.

So rather than moving through a maze by collecting coins, you move through the maze by completing in game quests, like we do on the Team Race.

Even if we kept Team Races as they are, could Social Point not come up with a better designed circuit? Why does every circuit look the same for each race? Make one square, make one triangular, make one a load of zigzaggy lines...whatever.

Just spruce it up a bit. It's really not hard to do.

The group we were put into had 19 other Teams that were ranked 2500 & above! I did notice by the 2nd day of the Race, 1 Team had gone from 15 to 1 player & the other from 10 to 0! We can in 13th & worked very hard for those 12 laps! Our Team goes from Level 25 to 61/64/93/111 for myself & 3 Co-Leads! While I like the idea of "locking players in", I do kick inactives 2 hours before the Wars end who have made no attacks at all! I thought ML had set a minimum amount of Wars/Time together as a Team but a couple of Teams in our group had 5 Wins in less than 2 weeks together so they were an obvious RACE TEAM with all their players Levels 70+! Team Races are no fun when they are "Pay to Win"!!

@MamawJane said in Team race feedback:

Team Races are no fun when they are "Pay to Win"!!

There are still some really good rewards you can qualify for, both as a team and individually. I got Erebus, elementium, and 5m of food from this last one.

Basing a "no- kick policy" with time as the only restriction isn't fair to the team as a whole. Please base it on something else measurable such as gems used or points earned . Possibilities: 150+ gems or 5k. points in race, before half way mark, should not be kicked.

Setting a limit on no kicks after half way mark would increase the inactivity of the player that may have already been inactive. This would result in lower war participation and lower race participation. If a player is inactive it should result in a kick.

For example; we established a no-kick after half way mark. The people in my baby team ranged in points from 250 points to 26k race points at the end. I didn't find it fair that we gave so much grace to an inactive player. I spent $50 and they maybe collected gold a few times. If people are aware that there is a no-kick, they don't try.
@Haka-Taka

@Fox so apparently there is another team race coming in during thanksgiving/ black friday week (Apocalypse in the mall team race). I sincerely hope that SP will do something with the team race, such as changing the rewards for the 2nd and perhaps 3rd place and address other issues such as players getting booted, requirements to enter the team race ( I think it should be changed to stop the formation of new teams ) etc. There are already a big mess out there with relics and I really hope there will be something positive for us the players. Reading through this thread, I can see there are many very constructive arguments and suggestions and I hope @Fox you will bring that to SP and make some changes to the race before it is being released next week! If nothing changes, then I am afraid there will be more issues and negative comments on top of the already-bad-enough relics part my team and I are still doing wars and all the events but we really hope we will see something very positive about this game!

@Bruce-Hamilton we ended up in 13th place because we stopped buying gems to buyout the Epic breeds! It's not fun when they "One for All" are next to impossible!

@Golab yes you are right about that it was very doable i think we had more problems with pvp then with the epic ones, because of refresh button was missing at that moment

@Fox said in Team race feedback:

Hello Legends,

I have a theoretic question for you and would like to know your opinion.
We usually recieve a lot of complaints from players that have been kicked out of the team during the team race. It is especially disheartening to get these tickets from players who really helped the team to progress (e.g. spent gems) and at the end, they get kicked out. Support can't help those players as it is allowed to kick players whenever during the Team Race.

What if we introduced condition that no player can't be kicked out of the team in the second half of the Team Race?

It's a better idea to simply link every player's reward to the team they were in once the race started.