From update section within the game

Seriously SP !

Actually i don't know why Sp make this a problem ?! as far as i know there is no billion-owner send a ticket to sp asking for a help "" please i have alot of gold help me ""

If we think it is usless to have billions of gold we will be who sell gold farm and see what to do with our space ,, if i choose to have a good economy even if it is useless don't FORCE me to give up on it

It is - and it should - my decision to breed all the monsters i have in store or not , don't force uni game style on us

I'm guessing it's the team shop monsters' turn.

I kind of understand why they are doing it but unfortunately this hurts not only those of us that do not have billions sitting in our account but those of you who do. So not only did our struggle become harder but now it is going to become even harder. I guess I will just stop bothering with the 72 hour challenges because I am not going to be able to make enough to get two let alone three of the featured monsters. Ugh, disgusted right now!

If they are going to make gold changes they really need to change the challenges then. Last challenge I had less gold and it was harder to reach the goal in the challenge being level 90. I need to earn a huge amount and can't even get close to it as they changed gold production but not amounts to be earned in the challenge.

Edited to add they need to change overall pricing on everything if they are going to lower the gold production. ie. temples, purchasing cells and lower level runes, habitats... etc.

@Suzznee said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

If they are going to make gold changes they really need to change the challenges then. Last challenge I had less gold and it was harder to reach the goal in the challenge being level 90. I need to earn a huge amount and can't even get close to it as they changed gold production but not amounts to be earned in the challenge.

Edited to add they need to change overall pricing on everything if they are going to lower the gold production. ie. temples, purchasing cells and lower level runes, habitats... etc.

I agree, it is as if they are penalizing the entire population to make up for the small percentage of veteran players who have those gold farms. Why didn't they just reduce the accounts with the billions of gold instead of hurting the rest of us.

@Nynaevelan

I agree, it is as if they are penalizing the entire population to make up for the small percentage of veteran players who have those gold farms. Why didn't they just reduce the accounts with the billions of gold instead of hurting the rest of us.

So you think it is fair if they do so ? players works for years on their gold production , and they got penalty for it

@Haka-Taka said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Nynaevelan

I agree, it is as if they are penalizing the entire population to make up for the small percentage of veteran players who have those gold farms. Why didn't they just reduce the accounts with the billions of gold instead of hurting the rest of us.

So you think it is fair if they do so ? players works for years on their gold production , and they got penalty for it

Fair....absolutely not! Should everyone be penalized for those that have them....again absolutely not! I do not know what the right answer is but this isn't it.

Actually i don't know why Sp make this a problem ?! as far as i know there is no billion-owner send a ticket to sp asking for a help "" please i have alot of gold help me ""

If we think it is usless to have billions of gold we will be who sell gold farm and see what to do with our space ,, if i choose to have a good economy even if it is useless don't FORCE me to give up on it

It is - and it should - my decision to breed all the monsters i have in store or not , don't force uni game style on us

@Haka-Taka i think is is twofold why they are changing it. 1. if you have billions not only are you not buying gold but you are easily completing the 72 hour challenges, hence reducing their revenue during those events and 2. if you have those gold farms and you are sacrificing buying new monsters that too is reducing their revenue. Not to mention you are asking for more room so that you can have your gold farm and room for your other monsters.

They could have left this alone, in my opinion, the library is already forcing users to make room for more monsters as you try to rank them up so the gold issue could have been left alone. I am just sorry I do not have billions sitting in my account to hold me over for a while.

This is similar to them fixing the broken dragon market in DC which allowed users to gather billions in food and gold. Not only did they fix it but they increased the cost to farm, upgrade habs and everything else forcing users to use up all that surplus of gold.

@Nynaevelan said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Haka-Taka i think is is twofold why they are changing it. 1. if you have billions not only are you not buying gold but you are easily completing the 72 hour challenges, hence reducing their revenue during those events and 2. if you have those gold farms and you are sacrificing buying new monsters that too is reducing their revenue. Not to mention you are asking for more room so that you can have your gold farm and room for your other monsters.

They could have left this alone, in my opinion, the library is already forcing users to make room for more monsters as you try to rank them up so the gold issue could have been left alone. I am just sorry I do not have billions sitting in my account to hold me over for a while.

This is similar to them fixing the broken dragon market in DC which allowed users to gather billions in food and gold. Not only did they fix it but they increased the cost to farm, upgrade habs and everything else forcing users to use up all that surplus of gold.

No free players will ever buy gold . whatever the case ,Also buying new monsters are totally usless for free players if i cant rank them

so if they nerf gold nothing will change regarding those 2 points .

@Haka-Taka
I also am a little perplexed at SPs pursuit of gold production. It really doesn't seem to be that much of a problem.
I'm wondering if one of the motivations is to slow the game progression down in order to give them effectively more time between major updates and hence increase the gems per man hr of work..
.....Let's make it harder to get food and hence level and rank monsters up and hence draw out the game.
Maybe also they are going to implement more content that uses gold, that we are unaware of....

It seems they are getting a little zealous to say the least about gold production

@Haka-Taka
Yes... I guess the making room for new monsters kind of makes sense, but as you say the library took care of this....

To me it seems as though they are really creating rather a stir, where they have more to loose than gain....

I guess we will see.

@Nynaevelan said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Haka-Taka i think is is twofold why they are changing it. 1. if you have billions not only are you not buying gold but you are easily completing the 72 hour challenges, hence reducing their revenue during those events.

But they're not losing too much on the 72h events, as level 90+ players, even if they had 100B gold, can still barely get enough coins to get one of each monster because of the coin earning amounts.

I don't mind the changes too much but it would be nice to get an actual detailed heads up with plenty of time to adjust my planning. Saying we're going to make more changes without detailing exactly what they are is not helpful.

Would also be nice if, as mentioned by many others, they re-evaluated amounts needed for challenges and other gold based things in the game (buying runes, growing food, etc).

@karryt said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Nynaevelan said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Haka-Taka i think is is twofold why they are changing it. 1. if you have billions not only are you not buying gold but you are easily completing the 72 hour challenges, hence reducing their revenue during those events.

But they're not losing too much on the 72h events, as level 90+ players, even if they had 100B gold, can still barely get enough coins to get one of each monster because of the coin earning amounts.

I don't mind the changes too much but it would be nice to get an actual detailed heads up with plenty of time to adjust my planning. Saying we're going to make more changes without detailing exactly what they are is not helpful.

Would also be nice if, as mentioned by many others, they re-evaluated amounts needed for challenges and other gold based things in the game (buying runes, growing food, etc).

Thanks for the feedback. We will try to fix it and communicate the changes sooner with more details. This was a learning experience for everyone.

Regarding the amounts needed for the time challenge, this is being discussed and we are looking into it.

@karryt said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Nynaevelan said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Haka-Taka i think is is twofold why they are changing it. 1. if you have billions not only are you not buying gold but you are easily completing the 72 hour challenges, hence reducing their revenue during those events.

But they're not losing too much on the 72h events, as level 90+ players, even if they had 100B gold, can still barely get enough coins to get one of each monster because of the coin earning amounts.

I don't mind the changes too much but it would be nice to get an actual detailed heads up with plenty of time to adjust my planning. Saying we're going to make more changes without detailing exactly what they are is not helpful.

Would also be nice if, as mentioned by many others, they re-evaluated amounts needed for challenges and other gold based things in the game (buying runes, growing food, etc).

I don't agree with this. IN previous 72 hour challenges before the last two, with my food guardian and 3 billion gold I can farm enough to get the coins to collect all three monsters. So how is it not possible for a user with over a 100 billion gold not to be able to collect all three monsters? Heck they wouldn't have to harvest any gold for the rest of the year to be able to fully complete a 72 hour challenge each month and still have plenty left over.

Other than farming and these challenges what are the gold farmers using their gold for? The fact that they have more than 50 billion should attest to the fact that they aren't really using it. Sorry I get it @Haka-Taka because you are losing years worth of prep but in all honesty it should be those of us who do not have the gold farms and the billions and billions of gold who should be in an uproar, not all you gold hoarders. I mean the fact that you all have so many of the same monsters are either not getting new monsters or leaving them in storage says you do not need the gold to farm and feed, you have all the habs you want or need, so what do you need to keep building up all that gold for? It is not like you are buying that many runes and cells are on sale for gems. So other than the loss of your farms, what is the issue(s)?

They have not nerfed the monsters for sale for gems and in events, don't you have them in storage where you can pull them out and use them to replace your farmers, thereby you are in the same position as before?

What about those who don't have enough gold though to do what the top players do. I don't earn enough to earn even one of the dang monsters in the 72 hour challenge. I never make the gold challenge because it is way to high for my level.

Not everyone has huge farms nor do they have all day to be on here collecting and getting everything for all the challenges. It has made it more difficult for the mid range player and the newbies to earn enough gold for a lot of things.

I spend money on the game and I enjoy playing but I would like once in awhile to earn a 72 hour monster without spending everything I have saved to buy that next habitat or island or buy monster cells or whatever I do with it without having to spend another week to build it back up. It is very expensive to upgrade the temples and the other things that need gold to build them. Just because the long term players have a gazillion in gold doesn't mean making everything earn less is going to make the game better for everyone.

@Nynaevelan said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

I don't agree with this. IN previous 72 hour challenges before the last two, with my food guardian and 3 billion gold I can farm enough to get the coins to collect all three monsters. So how is it not possible for a user with over a 100 billion gold not to be able to collect all three monsters?

Sorry I don't recall exactly where I saw this but I believe someone ran the numbers and even with the 3 star farm boost and doing Black Lotus Root constantly, without missing any to sleep, they still could not generate enough coins in the 72 hours to get much past all 3 monsters. It's a limitation due to time it takes to grow food (unless you're gemming food), not necessarily a limitation on how much gold you have.

Now for those that are under level 80 and still have very favorable coins earned ratios per food grown, you can easily lap the 72h events. I painstakingly kept myself under level 80 until this past 72h event and was able to reach round 3. It was certainly a lot of planning and prep to be in that position though and I did have to sacrifice continuing to upgrade buildings in order to save gold (and not gain XP), just for the event. Now that I'm level 80 I'll probably be happy if I can get 2 of the 3 monsters.

@Haka-Taka

1. No way to significantly affect those who are in the top 2,500 of gold earners without affecting the vast majority of lower players even more.
2. This is most likely in response because those same high gold farmers are also the ones who have tons of war tokens income so they just switched monster farms up. This is a continuation on the war against playing for free or nearly free.

I ususally finish around 6k in the gold event and I can assure you that I am constantly broke. I can't imagine not knowing what to do with the gold. Buy runes,craft them, buy tons of food, upgrade all of everything to max, grow insane food for events, etc.... they have to be talking about the top couple of percent and they are willing to mess over the much larger percent of players for what???

If people having billions of coin is a problem, why not just put a billion coin cap limit and leave production alone? That way people with less than a year of play can still build some power.

I would quit playing before I ever spend real money on anything besides gems or vip monsters, and with all this fast changes in a game that takes half a year to do anything, well I won't spend a dime, and yeah I have spent a little an would have continued, but you stoped any chance of that....

@Fox said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@karryt said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Nynaevelan said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@Haka-Taka i think is is twofold why they are changing it. 1. if you have billions not only are you not buying gold but you are easily completing the 72 hour challenges, hence reducing their revenue during those events.

But they're not losing too much on the 72h events, as level 90+ players, even if they had 100B gold, can still barely get enough coins to get one of each monster because of the coin earning amounts.

I don't mind the changes too much but it would be nice to get an actual detailed heads up with plenty of time to adjust my planning. Saying we're going to make more changes without detailing exactly what they are is not helpful.

Would also be nice if, as mentioned by many others, they re-evaluated amounts needed for challenges and other gold based things in the game (buying runes, growing food, etc).

Thanks for the feedback. We will try to fix it and communicate the changes sooner with more details. This was a learning experience for everyone.

Regarding the amounts needed for the time challenge, this is being discussed and we are looking into it.

@Fox Thanks for replying here. Can one of your designers elaborate why this is a problem that needs to be fixed in such a way pissing everyone off? Clearly no one seems seeing the same way as you do.

Thank you for your attention. Communication is not only about informing a change, but more importantly, giving explanation of rationals behind a change and listening to players' feedback are keys to keep players engaged and ultimately benefit your company.

I personally agree with them that it is unhealthy and many of the gold production numbers on these monsters are antiquated. They didn't used to give away piles and piles of monsters, and as they do inflated gold numbers make less and less sense. That's probably why new ones went down, they are giving away sooooo many of them all of the time. For free! And since they need to keep gold numbers down on all of the entirely free monsters they are constantly giving people, it makes no sense for outdated creatures who bring little present day value to be some objects worth hording. It's also not sensible that some players have such a gigantic store of resources they don't need that they spend hundreds of millions in food feeding up pandakens for the food challenge and things like this.

They're not forcing a uniform game style, in fact they are discouraging it with moves like these. One where people simply stockpile hordes of creatures based on no real game value and merely for gold production. So they can compete it challenges for gems against other people hording piles of creatures with no value in some never ending race to see who can stockpile the most irrelevant junk.

Maybe some challenges need to be adjusted as a result, if the basis for the numbers were the constantly hyper inflating gold numbers. Or maybe not if creatures with actual value get a significant enough bump. And the basis for the decision probably shouldn't be "but I used to get the challenges before and now I don't!!!" and probably something more relevant like the actual game economy. Similar to the reasoning behind gold changes themselves.

I'll also say that this is only a short term nerf, and the potential capacity for gold production probably increased from this due to rank bonuses. At least from what I've seen in the first one. We'll see what this one brings

Dear SP,

Please understand that not everybody has lvl 4 legendary habitats, lvl 130 legendaries, X runes, and billions of gold like people from top teams.

Well In the mode to write long post

• First about my game and economy

I'm playing ML since 1st day ,, Have currently 54 Lv Legendary habitat , 33 non L habitat , My highest gold rune level is 6 -- on few legends-- currently trying to put level 4 on all ... i was earning about 200 M per day before the nerf , currently have 10 B gold not over 50 or 100 or anything

• Regarding question why so much gold ?

For free players there is no other way to advance in this game without good economy ,, we have lab ,, team war and now library -- but ignore this last one--

How free players are supposed to rank good monsters like voltaik , timerion ,demise ,shalinar etc to battle with them in pvp or team war

thanks to the stupid lab we need 18 copy of each monster to fully rank it , so if a monster cost 250 gem this 4500 gem per 1 monsters , and if you want to buy 3 rune for it it is 345X3 so another 1k gem

for cash players this is nothing ,, for free players either they should find their way to earn gem or just pass on battling with top tire monster or vs top tire players

Is it so wrong for free player to dream and aim to play on higher level ??

so with good economy i can earn gems from events ,,as the gems offered in the dungeons, monsterwood, calender, are not enough for buying anything

High gold give me gems in gold fever ,, with high gold ,i can grow food for growing event , then i can feed for feeding one ,, gold help in rune lord as well

I started making legendary gold farm years ago to reach this point , where i can have level 120 timerion , 120 voltaik , 110 demise sure my team donate cells to me alot but the core was monsters i bought with my gems

on 26 April i had 10 B gold and now i still have 10 B gold so i really need and spending it ,,, for example #1 in gold fever who can make 1 b in 2 days with temple .. i saw a month go a screenshot of his game and he had like 26B so we make huge amount and spend it to earn gems ,,

• Maybe this is the point here free players are in nutshell Turning gold into gems so lets cut this

@Nynaevelan Hope i answered why i need huge gold income
@DrJ

One where people simply stockpile hordes of creatures based on no real game value and merely for gold production

Actually i think gold production is very important real game value
you cant advance in this game with gold farm ,, who didn't have pandaken farm in early days so he can meet the game requirement ,,Gold is one of the most basics in this game just as the monsters producing it

t's also not sensible that some players have such a gigantic store of resources they don't need

Again we need it , and this how i choose to play my game , if a players love pandaken and decided to build 90 nature habitat and fill them with 360 panda , it is his choice ,, he will not advance in the game but this is what he choose,, and the old breedable is available for every one ,, if you need high gold copy us ,, if you are about collection it is ok

I'll also say that this is only a short term nerf, and the potential capacity for gold production probably increased from this due to rank bonuses. At least from what I've seen in the first one. We'll see what this one bring

Really !! fully ranked thorder still produce less than 305 gold . and if i have legendary farm that took years to build now i should go and rank all , so only 17x more effort required ,,, it is a bad joke from sp

Personally I do not understand why SP could not do this plain and simple the first time. 155 GPM for Breedables, 244 GPM for the rest.

Get rid of the useless difference between the gold production of Mommy (155) and Firelequin (305).

@Haka-Taka thanks for explaining and yes your explanation makes sense. I would say I would love to see a topic on tips of how to turn gold into gems but I do not want to give big brother and easier way to cut us off at the knees.

Look, it's not as hard to make gold as you guys are making this out to be. I played the game for about a year, took off a year, and have played about 10 months again.

I made 60 million gold when I left the game the first time, I was at about 240 million a day before the "nerf". That's insane, and the only reason I was actually able to spend this amount of gold is because I'm not a free player. And I didn't even concentrate on breedables, I was doing Lao mu and ledovech a huge portion of the time.

My daughters stopped playing and I took over one of their accounts for a month. Totally free accounts, and I've been involved for a long time so I'm well aware of the "plight" of free players. I easily more than doubled gold in about a month and got her to get gems. She was also well on pace for gems "post nerf". It's not that hard and won't be bad for free players to feed up a normal number of monsters. They don't have these 18 copies you speak of.

And no, I don't believe it's a reasonable expectation that free players are going to be able to build up and compete with people that have played the game for multiple years and spent money in overnight fashion. Thats ridiculous. I'm not sure they need to be able to compete entirely fairly at all necessarily. Or what's the point of spending money? I just don't understand why this needs to be a goal, or how it would even be achievable if it were. And really the new free players who are getting streams of legends aren't the ones most effected, they probably have been accustomed to many 155 gpm monsters. And probably aren't the ones going berserk. It's people that have played for a long time and somehow feel entitled to this warped economy they've enjoyed for too long.

@DrJ

Regarding this point

I don't believe it's a reasonable expectation that free players are going to be able to build up and compete with people that have played the game for multiple years and spent money in overnight fashion

No way a free player will get what a cash player get , i meant only to be able to fight back for example regarding lighting monsters we have

• Thorder which is breedable so yeah nay can rank him to level 130
• Voltaik which cost 249 gem to buy and 4500 to rank to level 130
• Zyla which cost real money and she is top monster in lighting monster

If free players went using Thorder against zyla they have no chance , so what i aim for is ranked voltaik which is inferior to zyla but at least can compet and fight back

so to be able to get 4500 gem to rank my voltaik i need huge amount of gold to convert them to ting amount of gems , save them for months then buy voltaik and rank .

@DrJ

I will admit I overracted a bit to the initial gold nerfs.
However, one of SP's reasons to nerf breedable 305s because people were accumulating too much food/gold. It just made the gap between people with non-breedable 305s that much far ahead. As a spender in this game, the food and gold matters ALOT, its a way to sustain rune costs for wars, being able to consistently hit 50-100 gems on gold/food/harvest makes or breaks some players to even play in wars competitively.

As it currently stands, this basically cements the top few players from ever being contested in those challenges. They benefited from free non breedables 305s back in the day and will continue reaping in more gems per challenge with even less competition. There was a reason why none of the top10 gold/food/harvest players said a peep about the nerf, they are untouchable now.

If they wanted to nerf gold, do it across the board, not just selective nerfs. Which leads to my other concern, so what if i do choose to repopulate my island with 305s non breedables, either with gems or War coins, will they be selectively nerfed further down the line?

@pvtpyle said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@DrJ

I will admit I overracted a bit to the initial gold nerfs.
However, one of SP's reasons to nerf breedable 305s because people were accumulating too much food/gold. It just made the gap between people with non-breedable 305s that much far ahead. As a spender in this game, the food and gold matters ALOT, its a way to sustain rune costs for wars, being able to consistently hit 50-100 gems on gold/food/harvest makes or breaks some players to even play in wars competitively.

If they wanted to nerf gold, do it across the board, not just selective nerfs. Which leads to my other concern, so what if i do choose to repopulate my island with 305s non breedables, either with gems or War coins, will they be selectively nerfed further down the line?

Still don't see the need of nerf , those old monsters are still breedable , it is not like we take an advantage of a glitch or something so new players cant do it

Leave the gold as it was , and it is new players choice to take the ladder from 1st step as we did and build their gold or play as a collector or mixing both or whatever

and yes propably the 2nd round will be the monsters cash players shifted too ,for example Exo skeel replacing thorder - me too replaced my thorder with exo --

@Haka-Taka

Exactly, I started the game about a year ago, yes i am a spender but nothing obscene, $40-120 on average. For me to go from virtually a lv 1 to being able to contend against top teams is because of gold production. I ignored all non 305s, never hatched my legends and just breed 305s, and took every chance to improve the gold runes. Slowly but surely i went from being top 5k to being top 500.

Granted I no longer depend as much on breedable 305s, but I am concerned for newer players and climbing players.

Removing breedable 305s only benefits veteran players and hurts newer players. The climb to full 130s and X rune is hard enough, why make it even harder and reducing the influx of new competitive players? If i had started the game today, I do not think I would have been able to reach my current standings in the same amount of time, too many changes that only benefit veteran players.

@pvtpyle
how it benefits veteran players !
i think it hurt both veteran and new players . but its impact on new players are much bigger and heavier

@Haka-Taka

Sorry i should have clarified, benefits more specifically veteran spenders*. It solidifies their spot at the top due to the ease of getting free/cheap 305s, the ease of getting X runes for a lower price/ War shop.

All the current changes do impact alot of people both new and old, but the climb for newer players will be exceptionally more difficult compared to before.

I really don't think this is a high level vs lower level person issue in any way. The true effect of the changes was most evident in gold production of people playing in the way these changes are meant to encourage vs not.

For example, I have a broad range of 110's. I don't subscribe to the rank one person to 130 and gather a pile of breedable 305's for no apparent reason philosophy entirely and play a more balanced style. My gold wasn't impacted much. Because the downgrades to breedables (which I have a lot of) were offset by the rank bonuses. My daughters account didn't see much of a hit because she had few breedable 305's. I've seen high ranking players I know report that their gold production went up. Because they had lots of 130's and not many breedable 305's.

People that took a big hit are those that play the rank one person to 130 and horde breedable 305's people. But really, if anything those are the ones doing the most to make it to you have no choice to play the same way if you want any chance to compete at high levels at reasonable cost. Theyre the ones sucking all variety out of the game with their seas or volts and thetys. They're playing what I think most free players will find as an entirely unattractive and boring way of playing the game. One that ruins the attractiveness of any new creatures, mazes, progressives. Ya know, the whole game that actually happens outside of war. And it really makes no real sense from a long term game persepective why anyone would want a system that promotes this sort of behavior.

Thing is there's so few of these horders compared to the rest of us that such a wide reaching response was not necessary. I'm personally uncomfortable with any solution that affects people who were not part of the problem. They could have just put a cap on the number of certain legendaries you can have.

@DrJ said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

People that took a big hit are those that play the rank one person to 130 and horde breedable 305's people. But really, if anything those are the ones doing the most to make it to you have no choice to play the same way if you want any chance to compete at high levels at reasonable cost. Theyre the ones sucking all variety out of the game with their seas or volts and thetys. They're playing what I think most free players will find as an entirely unattractive and boring way of playing the game. One that ruins the attractiveness of any new creatures, mazes, progressives. Ya know, the whole game that actually happens outside of war. And it really makes no real sense from a long term game persepective why anyone would want a system that promotes this sort of behavior.

Hold up...So why is playing one way of ML correct and another way incorrect? From how you described your island and philosophy you play ML to collect and own a variety. You get the benefit of an expansive collection and reap the library rewards, that's fine and your decision to play like that.

However, why is it suddenly wrong to Min-Maxing your island with a 305 set up. many players don't find interest in collecting monsters so but prefer to get the most out of their islands and rank highly in the timed challenges.

You as a collector, may find gold farmers as boring and lacking of variety, from a gold farmer's perspective they might think your island inefficient and think its a waste of space to have 155 gpm monsters.

As you said yourself, you don't care for building 305 farms because that's not fun for you and have a balanced approach. But why should you care if your others play to improve their farms to get and rewarded from challenges?

Restricting gold restricts food. Food is the limiting factor for high spending players who buy 18 copies of new monsters to rank. By making a food bottleneck it slows high spending players from end-gaming immediately on release of new monsters. Unless they buy food. Which is ridiculously expensive.

That is what I perceive as a possible driver.

As to the effect on f2p players' ability to earn free gems in Gold Fever and Harvester challenges - gpm reduction across the board is a nil sum game. If everyone loses the same percentage of gpm, the Challenge placing remains the same.

@C0ntr1v3d said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

Restricting gold restricts food. Food is the limiting factor for high spending players who buy 18 copies of new monsters to rank. By making a food bottleneck it slows high spending players from end-gaming immediately on release of new monsters. Unless they buy food. Which is ridiculously expensive.

That is what I perceive as a possible driver.

As to the effect on f2p players' ability to earn free gems in Gold Fever and Harvester challenges - gpm reduction across the board is a nil sum game. If everyone loses the same percentage of gpm, the Challenge placing remains the same.

Food is big thing for me still too as a smaller spender, although I so far haven't been affected too hard by the GPM reductions. I have resorted to not ranking team shop monsters and using them temporarily as gold producers though.

I'm wondering if the newish offers now of buying cells for monsters is somewhat related to these changes as that bypasses the need to feed/extract the monsters.

Also, because the GPM was altered for only certain monsters/types, it's not exactly across the board, it obviously affects certain folks much more than others. If they did the flat 155/244 GPM type alteration on every L then I could see the rankings pretty much staying the same.

I had just made it in to the top 5k for Gold Fever before the changes and afterwards I still made it, but I was collecting from every habitat minutes before end to squeak in.

@karryt yes, that is why I said: "gpm reduction across the board is a nil sum game. If everyone loses the same percentage of gpm, the Challenge placing remains the same."

The comment was in context of the flagged further round of gpm reduction. IF gpm reduction is across the board, following completion of the gpm reduction changes THEN it will be a nil sum game as regards the Challenges.

@C0ntr1v3d Ah, I see, yes that would be true. I read their notification of another set of changes to be just to another small set of monsters though, otherwise why not do the whole thing at one time? Honestly I don't really understand the reasoning for them all to have different GPM values anyway, there's no real game tie in to monsters and how they'd make you gold...

I am curious what their full plans are here though, this piecemeal stuff with these changes and not revealing the whole library is very frustrating.

@pvtpyle Personally I don't care how anyone plays the game so long as it doesn't impact my ability to enjoy it. I have no desire to play in elite wars where you either spend all of your resources maxing a single creature in each area while abandoning all others, or have to spend large amounts of real life dollars in order to compete. I don't begrudge players that play like that, until I see them endorsing an unfair matchmaking system on the basis they don't actually want to spend the amounts it requires to compete at those levels regularly and would rather stomp all over teams with no chance to win all of the time, or as contrived suggests go out of their ways to duck real matchups, or as others note start new teams to do this, or cry about every change to the game meant to improve the experience for all so they can protect their little corner of the world. When they do that, I feel it's well within my right to criticize that playing style and movement.

I also feel that it's within SP's right to make changes if they believe a certain playing style is more healthy for the long term game and would like to promote it. And I do believe that's what this is intended to do. Players playing a different style may disagree, but I'm with SP on this one.

And yes, I realize that not all players are "crying" about the changes and some are actually expressing well thought out points in opposition. Unfortunately there's not enough of them and more that are trying to gather some giant populist movement without considering the game experience of others.

Also consider that there are changes to the game being made that lessen the need for the amount of food for ranking monsters, like distributing monsters in cell format. Yes you still have to feed the monster itself up, but none of the copies, don't tie up hatchery and extract slots, and get the creature into production fast. I just ranked two VIP to 120 like this.

I just struggle to find any reason their changes don't make sense.

@DrJ said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@pvtpyle Personally I don't care how anyone plays the game so long as it doesn't impact my ability to enjoy it. I have no desire to play in elite wars where you either spend all of your resources maxing a single creature in each area while abandoning all others, or have to spend large amounts of real life dollars in order to compete. I don't begrudge players that play like that, until I see them endorsing an unfair matchmaking system on the basis they don't actually want to spend the amounts it requires to compete at those levels regularly and would rather stomp all over teams with no chance to win all of the time, or as contrived suggests go out of their ways to duck real matchups, or as others note start new teams to do this, or cry about every change to the game meant to improve the experience for all so they can protect their little corner of the world. When they do that, I feel it's well within my right to criticize that playing style and movement.

How did the top about playing the game as a gold farmer vs a collector jump to the topic of Wars/mismatches/top teams dodging? Those topics really have nothing to do with players who like to farm the timed challenges vs players who enjoy collecting. I don't believe I've openly expressed my opinion or been vocal about any of the matter either, so i'm curious why you brought up that unrelated topic.

Back to the related topic, I'll agree it is SP's right to make changes to the game as they see fit and what is healthy for the game. And believe me, I would prefer to have a larger variety of newer monsters that produces equal or comparable gpm, however that is not the case currently, and the gap difference between old and new monster is to great to ignore from a gold farmer's perspective.

If SP wants to do away with 305s being exclusive to older monsters that is perfectly reasonable and a wise balance change. But currently that is not the case, its the concerning when they do selective 305 nerfs, while keeping others intact, so the players who happened to build a certain 305 farm with X monster isn't affected while another player with a 305 farm with Y monster is affected. In the upcoming gold changes, if they are consistent and do an "across the board nerf to gold" I'd be pretty content with that change.

As pointed out earlier it's bad optics to sell overpriced cells (375 gems for 120 cells) at the same time as they are limiting our ability to grow food. If the two are not connected it was terrible timing. It makes people think this nerfing is for reasons other than 'balancing'.

I see people mention economy. There is no economy. There is no trade of coin. It makes no sense why anyone cares about the coin of another, esp when however you got it, you could do the same.

@pvtpyle I feel match making ends up tying in to the "different playing styles" element that was brought up early in this and is also kind of a focus of my post you quoted. What I'm getting at is that it's kind of impossible for these different playing styles to peacefully coexist on this game because the matchmaking system is broken. The only way to actually be competitive in most of the wars it gives you is to conform to this one "dominant strategy", a term they recently used as they described volt and thetys. And basically make half the game not worth very much.

Stop giving teams ridiculous overmatches in wars in either direction and people are more free to play however they like. Lock them into a system where they have to fight others conforming to this one "dominant strategy" in a series of horrible mismatches one way or the other does the opposite IMO. Way more than any gold changes could ever do. The gold changes won't even change anything about this... people will find some new way to horde gold anyways.

@Brian-Walker

Yes the gold production isn't "an economy", but that is besides the point. Yes, 10m food is the same as 10m food on any other player's islands, but having an island that can produce more will get you better results and rewards for 3/7 timed events.

@DrJ said in Another Gold Nerf is coming:

@pvtpyle I feel match making ends up tying in to the "different playing styles" element that was brought up early in this and is also kind of a focus of my post you quoted. What I'm getting at is that it's kind of impossible for these different playing styles to peacefully coexist on this game because the matchmaking system is broken. The only way to actually be competitive in most of the wars it gives you is to conform to this one "dominant strategy", a term they recently used as they described volt and thetys. And basically make half the game not worth very much.

Stop giving teams ridiculous overmatches in wars in either direction and people are more free to play however they like. Lock them into a system where they have to fight others conforming to this one "dominant strategy" in a series of horrible mismatches one way or the other does the opposite IMO. Way more than any gold changes could ever do.

This is where most are wrong about certain groups of competitive players, just because im in XXX team rank #YY does not mean we share the same concerns as other similar ranked teams. My team and I didn't invest all this time and money grossly under matched teams, its a waste of time for both teams, the weaker team loses out of war coins they can use, and we don't get the thrill of beating good teams. The tactics many teams do such as sharing match times or dodging/evading teams is something we don't participate in, we end and start wars without delay regardless of who is still searching or about to search.

As for the balance of the game, I could probably go way too much in detail as to why its detrimental to have broken mechanics or grossly overpowered strategies in any game. It limits design space and oppresses other content to ever be used or appreciated. Believe me, I would gladly have the imbalances of the game fixed/nerfed as it would bring a refreshing change in how certain wars would be conducted, but at the same time, until they are fixed I would be at a severe disadvantage if I or my team choose not to use those imbalances. It is a complex situation when money is involved, as it put the game developers in a tough situation of balancing something that many have paid for.

@pvtpyle Yes, like I said there are people that are being reasonable on the side of opposition. And I apologize for lumping them in with the others in those statements, not my intent. But these are the sentiments I've seen expressed by the vocal majority on many of these issues. And many of these issues end up being interrelated because of the current state of many elements of the game.

@DrJ

Yes, my concern for balancing gold was essentially lumped into the other topics that are currently being discussed.

To sum things up, my concerns for the games resource system has nothing to do with other current "hot topics". I simply want a fair and healthy way the play the gold farming game in addition to wars.

RE a few comments on the intent of this Gold balancing.

My thoughts and I'm sure others see the same......One of the free elements of the game is gold production and gathering food. Gold generation is clearly the key to the amount of food we can all generate. With freely available high GPM breedable monsters we all have the ability to create farms and have high gold productions without spending gems.
Gold/food only really effects the speed in which we can rank monsters up. It has no real bearing on the game mechanics, hence what does it really matter that I have 10B gold.
If we look at if from the the fact that SP has to generate money and one of their goals is to continuously increase their profits, while keeping the game healthy ( this was mentioned many times during the T2 take over as one of the reasons the liked SP... they continuously increase profits and expand the games ) SPs secret sauce so to speak is their analytics dept. The goal of these guys is to study all the data and come up with ways to maximize revenue return, both long term and short term without crashing the game. This was also mentioned during the T2 acquisition.

So looking at it from the perspective of returns, I think this rebalancing possibly achieves two things.

1. Slows the progression of the game down. Clearly if overall GPM is lowered, ranking of new monsters is slowed, this effectively increases the revenue per man hr of work the team needs to put in.. slows the rate at which the team needs to deliver new content ( not sure this is a bad thing, also this is probably the lesser of the two possible goals.

2. It increases the potential revenue stream from cells. Clearly gold and hence food is limited, new monsters are introduced and SP makes cells are more readily available, in many forms..dungeons.. contests.. also purchasing. This will increase the revenue generated from cell sale metrics.
   I believe this factor would have been very much in the center of this rebalancing.

Of course I really have no idea.. just my thoughts....