Hi

This is to post your feedback regarding Gameplay changes (October 2018)

Unify MEGA - control skills and protections:

Stun Immunity (Status and Trait) will block Stun and Mega Stun.

Do you know what was the selling point of monster like brontes for example ?! it is his mega stun that work against immune to stun trait

Freeze Immunity (Status and Trait) will block Freeze and Mega Freeze.

Why some went after mega freez monsters ?? cause it can land on freez immune

Possession Immunity (Status and Trait) will block Regular Possessions / Won’t block Exclusive Possessions (Rebooted, Subscribed, Corrupted, Hacked).

So nothing to protect against Exclusive after many worked so hard to get and rank them and that after official confirmation about it !!!!

lets see what carlos think about this [here](lhttps://forums.socialpointgames.com/post/21118

Mountain (Trait) will block Stun, Mega Stun, Freeze and Mega Freeze.
!!!!

So after a year of officially clear rule explaining and players getting & ranking monsters based on that official info all this just changed !!!

I am totally disappointed in this changes , how can i strategies my moves and what monster to get and rank in the game is changing like that and if i cant depend on the official info anymore !!

I'm fine with the immunity changes for as more monsters get 2 turn deny skills it needed to happen for balancing reasons. However the recently controlled effect is a terrible idea. For it nerfs EVERY SINGLE deny monster in the game! My rank 2 hackster that I worked hard towards isn't that great anymore for after aoe hacking he stuck for a turn twiddling his thumbs. It's an awful idea that is just going to desecrate the meta. If it was seperate effects like recently frozen, stunned, and possessed then I'd be okay with that. But as it now stands I hate it very much. Also the Possession immunity status being nerfed to not block exclusive possessions doesn't make any sense. When the other immunity now are buffed, and block all forms of there effects? Why isn't the status for Possession treated in the same way?

@Haka-Taka Recently controlled??? Oh geez..

@esentis Yes, I'm not happy about that change the most........It makes all my hard work towards ranking up my Hackster a complete watse.....

@esentis recently controlled and recently freezed were announced

@Marianne-van-Es Recently Controlled:

Recently Controlled status (Recently Stunned, Recently Frozen, Recently Possessed) will be applied for 1 turn to a monster after a Stun, Freeze or Possession status effect expires.
Monsters with this status won't be able to be Stunned, Frozen or Possessed.

What I understand is that if I freeze a minion it gets "Recently controlled" no "Recently Frozen" making it Impossible to use any other deny skills. And as @MonstrousManiac said this is a huge hit for some deny monsters as is one of my favorite, Hackster.

@esentis Ok I understand now sorry

First impression is not good on these. First of all, we don’t want a consistent experience meaning every key deny gets treated identically. We want a consistent game in the sense of no bugs or quirks, crystal clear and unchanging skill descriptions. We want game effects to be consistent with skill descriptions, not the kind these changes would bring.

This really is a slap in the face for all who paid or worked hard to get and rank Megastun, megafreeze, and every single mode denier around. (Btw Hackster at least has an AOE Stun). It also guts several other favorites like Kihaku vs monsters with a single immunity trait or a bulwark as they won’t be able to deny two turns in a row. People’s Rank 4-5 Kihaku did not come cheap, and they were bought with the expectation that game mechanics would not ruin them.

Two-turn possession was never sold as a different kind completely, just one that lasts longer. Megastun and Megafreeze were specifically sold as greater in power in addition to duration; I don’t think these should be nerfed.
If a trait is designed to block both call it “Total Immunity to xyz” and be sure to have the effect match the description.

To the cynic, which I’m not, this would seem to be a way to setup newer and cooler monsters which we will be expected to pay to rank with dual modes of denial or dual traits 8-\ It’s frustrating when developer time is focused on fixing things that aren’t broken (like no ‘recently frozen’ state which we are all fine with) and flip-flopping on fundamental questions like how possession immunity works.

Congratulations SP. Now my Xiron the Ruby is completely trash. You drain our money and then f*** us over with your 'fair' changes. Every time I spend money for ranking up, you screw me over. Just stop and let us enjoy our game play.
Gortak's MegaStun move is useless
Thalassa's MegaFreeze move is useless
Using b2b Ruby Implosion and Laying Odds is useless since the enemies won't get immobilized.
And so on.

These changes are utterly ridiculous and totally unnecessary! You think it's ok to just change the fundamental rules of this game whenever you feel like it????? NO YOU CAN'T! Total disrespect for everybody who plays this game and a knife in the back of people who spent money on this game.

What annoys me most is that based on the 'rules of engagement' we buy and rank monsters.... Afterwards you change the rules but we don't have the opportunity to go back on our choices

Disgraceful.

These changes need to be undone at the first opportunity.

Hi there. I see some confusion, that I will gladly try to explain:

"Recently controlled"
There is NO a new effect called "Recently Controlled"
A Stun monster, after losing the turn, gets a "Recently Stunned" status, that prevents him to being continuously stunned.
From next week, a Frozen monster, after losing the turn, gets a "Recently Frozen" status, the same with Possession and "Recently Possessed" (that will NOT block Rebooted, Subscribed, Corrupted, Hacked).

"Immune to Possession Trait"
It will block Regular possessions and Mega-possessions
It will NOT block against Rebooted, Subscribed, Corrupted, Hacked

@Carlos Thanks!.

@Carlos Well now makes more sense ^^

Yep, I am just going to follow this one ...

@esentis lol was I right tho I thought to be wrong (sounds like a song)

@Marianne-van-Es haha indeed ^^

Fox could have definitely explained it better. Alas, we all make mistakes.

So freeze and possess will act like stun. This is a nerf to tons of monsters. Why roll it out so casually and without input? This is possibly one of the biggest changes that has ever been made to the game.

In general I think these are sensible changes. Makes things clearer and in a few months no one can really remember it ever worked differently.

Like with other major changes it would be good if SP gave customers the chance to change their 'nerfed' ranked monsters for something else though. Brontes is now just a very slow useless monkey . I would not be pleased if I had ranked him.

Frankly, I think it was both stupid and unnecessary to introduce literally dozens of control effects, immunities and so on. Who keeps track of which monster can give the trait of "whatever hater"?

I think it is necessary to streamline this into something managable. Good games are not good because they have complex rules, they are usually good because the rules are simple yet allow complex strategies. The rules in ML have become way too complex and need some streamlining. Now, can we please do things like unify ignite and burn?

Having said that, yes, this is a major blow to some monsters that should be met with a rebalance. Not only Kihaku, but also monsters like Eggeater (AoE possession and AoE 50% possession) will be nerfed.

This is a change that hits free players a lot harder than whales, who will just get whatever monster emerges as the new meta. or that have a score of monsters at rank 4 and 5 anyway. It also sends a very clear message "dear players, we can do everything including nerfing every monster you possess to kingdom come". I would imagine those changes - and the way they were introduced - might cause lot of players to quit the game for good.

Also, I completely, utterly don't get one thing: Why ask for feedback for a change in the future, but with release date already announced? Why not as feedback first before deciding on the changes? Or go through with the changes and ask for feedback afterwards?

@Carlos @Fox

@Carlos said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

Hi there. I see some confusion, that I will gladly try to explain:

"Recently controlled"
There is NO a new effect called "Recently Controlled"
A Stun monster, after losing the turn, gets a "Recently Stunned" status, that prevents him to being continuously stunned.
From next week, a Frozen monster, after losing the turn, gets a "Recently Frozen" status, the same with Possession and "Recently Possessed" (that will NOT block Rebooted, Subscribed, Corrupted, Hacked).

"Immune to Possession Trait"
It will block Regular possessions and Mega-possessions
It will NOT block against Rebooted, Subscribed, Corrupted, Hacked

This is A HUGE NERF to all deniers, please do not do that.

What do deniers do? they DENY, you are effectively making all deniers a 1 turn use monster! It is like making hitters only able to do damage for 1 turn then the target becomes immune to damage

The selling point of Baba Yaga for example, is she can aoe possess, next turn she can single possess, if she can't then what does she do?

Kihaku, if he lands freeze and possess then he just gave immunity to 2 forms of denial in one go? what does he do next trun? sit around and watch? all he does is possess and freeze.

Frostbite, Caillech, their whole thing is they freeze! if they can only do that one time then what good are they?? most matches won't last longer than 3 turns

Xiron the ruby, if he lands more than one type of denial in first turn, he effectively gave immunity to all that denial and made monsters undeniable next turn?

Nishant pet, all he has is possession, so he just recharges next turn?

Please think about the repercussions of this, you are eliminating the usage of deniers, bad enough we have to deal with bulwark and nemesis and warmsters and tough traits thrown around nilly willy on monsters, now you also want to take away the ability to deny them?

Again a denier is supposed to deny, that how their moves were chosen, that what they are runed for, if they can only deny for 1 turn then they are useless the next turn. Might as well be under cooldowns activated.

This is a huge change that affects monsters we bought and invested in for what they do. This is not balancing.

Baba Yaga, Caillech, Frostbite, Kihaku, Xiron, your top selling monsters will be killed with this change.

what happens to Mommy and Mountezema who can possess for 2 turns?

What difference will freeze have from stun then? That is what set froze apart, it can be used consecutively.

you want to limit continuous denial? make it that they can not be frozen or possessed after TWICE being under the effect not only once. What you plan to do doesn't balance deniers it kills their usage all together.

Yes it is a great for the top players with warmasters and vips and nemesis who barely get denied anyway, not so good for us middle level players who have invested gems and elementium, cells and war coins in monsters like Baba Yaga and Kihaku and Nishant pet.

Please do not ruin our deniers after years of the same game play mechanics under the title of poorly thought "balancing"

This makes it more consistent which is a good thing, people will need to find out a new strategy to deal with those enemy monsters, which is also a good thing, support monsters with clean possitive will be on demand now more than before, I don't think this needs to be a concern, mixing up strategies is a really fun part of the game, if people is worried about the enemy having "recently" status things, well, clean it up first then deny again, so let your denier go first, then your attacker, then your support, you deny, you attack, you clean possitive then deny again.

/me grabs the popcorn.

@Francisco-Franceschi said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

This makes it more consistent which is a good thing, people will need to find out a new strategy to deal with those enemy monsters, which is also a good thing, support monsters with clean possitive will be on demand now more than before, I don't think this needs to be a concern, mixing up strategies is a really fun part of the game, if people is worried about the enemy having "recently" status things, well, clean it up first then deny again, so let your denier go first, then your attacker, then your support, you deny, you attack, you clean possitive then deny again.

/me grabs the popcorn.

yes because you can always choose to have that perfect setup in war where u have all that.
I guess they just needed us to throw more gems on switching moves and runes now. Kudos SP you never fail to screw us.

At any time they can just mess up monsters after years of using them. I wouldn't have gotten Xiron if this was the case at the time nor invested in Kihaku to 120.

they can add recently frozen or possessed after 2 turns not one, that is enough balance without us having to trash what we have.

Are you kidding me? This makes the majority of my deniers that I have spent weeks or months ranking to 130 useless.

It shouldn't even be allowed to change a product that we have spent money purchasing.

This game is just getting less and less fun every day.

This is total B.S.! What a waste of time and money for so many players. This game is going downhill fast. I sincerely hope they do not follow through with these changes. How is it ok that someone pays money to buy and rank a monster and then sp changes things, which makes that monster useless...? It’s NOT! Stop screwing over your paying customers!

has These effects been installed now

@RDT925 8 October

The unhappiness expressed by several in this thread is understandable. And would have been expected by the developers.

But this change seems to me to be good for the long term health of the game.

Speed chain denial is a dead end meta, encouraging the developers to add layers and layers of new denials and new immunities, in turn making new monsters critical and dominant, then obsolete or redundant. It promoted churn.

Denial lock is not desirable in any RPG, and reduces the meta to a handful of overpowered denial monsters, especially with Disable Trait freely available.

With this change, that cycle is blunted. So chain deniers now control in alternative turns, allowing scope for actually playing in between. The Mega versions allow their victims to escape control every 3rd round - still very powerful but not inevitable.

This will promote more rounded teams, where attackers and support have improved value rather than just supporting a chain denier. Where deniers give opportunity to the rest of the team to strike, rather than just lock down.

That is a good thing. It further disrupts what was becoming a stale status quo, and opens scope for new, more considered, strategy.

We have already been forced to learn to deal with the need to remove status effects, to overcome Elvira's Evasion; now those new approaches can be put to work stripping "Recently xxx" status effects. Monsters like Varuna and Toy Master and Mystery etc with more than one form of denial increase in utility. Hitters have opportunity to hit. Alternative Rune choices become more viable.

Most importantly, this gives a simplified consistency to denial that has always been sorely needed.

Of course many monsters lose their grip on the game and become less OP. And of course that means players who have invested in those monsters will be unhappy. They will now need to adapt their playstyles to leverage the opportunity denial creates rather than rely solely on denial.

But ultimately, I have spent a great deal of time and money in this game over many years, and I would like to continue to enjoy the return on that investment for many more years - and that needs the game to continue to grow and thrive. This change reverses a dangerous trend, and is healthy for long term sustainability.

It took courage to take this step, in the face of the inevitable backlash. It was the right thing to do.

Of course, IMO.

Okay now when realising the effects are separate for recently stunned, frozen, and possession. I'm fine with these changes. However nerfing the immunity to possession status effect I feel like isn't necessary at all, and hurts monsters with those skills. My real major problem is these changes weren't discussed with the community all that well. The post made it sound like when hit with a control skill of any kind this would lead to the enemy being immune to all forms of control for a turn. Which it wasn't, however wording made it seem like it was. I find that to be a big issue with updates, and changes to the game. Wording, and communication could be better. Plus with these changes could we see Cryotan get a stamina decrease on "Boösaule Montes" for with this nerf it is no where near as good now.

I expect SP to put at least a thousand gems into my account when this update rolls out.

Now that all my deniers can no longer deny every turn, they are fairly useless with their current skill sets. I will need to change half the skills on every denier, so need to spend a good 40 gems for every deny toon.

Unless, of course, this is another big middle finger from SP.
Will they nerf half our toons, AND make us pay to respec them?

You don't have to give me gems, SP. Just make skill swapping free for 2 months. I'd be okay with that.

Also, the future monsters better not have some stupid skills like:

"Cleanses all enemy buffs. Applies <control skill> to all enemies".

Because then it's just nerfing all our deniers, just to repackage and resell us the exact same toons.

(Would SP do such a despicable thing?)

@C0ntr1v3d said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

The unhappiness expressed by several in this thread is understandable. And would have been expected by the developers.

But this change seems to me to be good for the long term health of the game.

Speed chain denial is a dead end meta, encouraging the developers to add layers and layers of new denials and new immunities, in turn making new monsters critical and dominant, then obsolete or redundant. It promoted churn.

I partly agree.
However, the thing is that completely changing the meta and severely nerfing half of the developed monsters is not a good move IMO. I expect a changing meta in this kind of game. New, stronger monsters will always be introduced, older monsters become less valuable. But this is different, this is no gradual change with an introduction of a few new monsters.

Also, it takes some skill out of the game. Denial chains were never a sure thing. With bulwark trait and all the immunities it took skill to find the best matchup (especially in war), and it was often a thing of beauty to succeed against a team that was 2 or even 3 ranks higher than my monsters by using speed and team speed runes, more often than not turning their monsters against their own monsters with possession. This is now over, the rank of the monsters will be much more relevant as a team 2 ranks higher will almost surely survive the initial round of attacks and then kill me.

There are ways to counter this. A simple solution would be to buff monsters that are hit hard by this change. For example Kihaku could simply get a higher base speed.

Again, changes are necessary and I think it's the right direction. But there are gradual changes that are natural and changes that frustrate players. Monster Legends is not a game that is played for a couple of weeks only, relying on a steady influx of new players, but it lives off dedicated players playing for a long time and spending money consistently. It is a bad idea to alienate those players, especially as some of the monsters most affected are rather new, so many players will have spent money on them very recently. And frankly, if I had recently spent hundrets or even thousands of dollars on some monsters that become pretty worthless I'd make sure I get my money back.

I'm not very insightful on policies, terms of service or user agreement (or any of those legal phrases), but do they reserve the right to alter/change monster's attributes that are purchased with real money? Especially after so many time & resources spent on said monster(s).
Because if not, this feels like something you take a legal action against!
No doubt this affects both whalers & us f2p (immensely) but this got me feeling sympathetic for the spenders out there. HOW!!!

These aren't your regular updates or tweaks or fixes in a game, this is a giant dump on the player's intellect and lack of respect for our opinions or outcry. And the fact that they've already got a date for these changes without our feedback or opinions about them first, only reinforces that point.

Whilst I agree with @C0ntr1v3d I would have preferred a slightly less radical approach to this. I agree that status effects should protect against all versions of the effect but I am surprised that they applied this change also to the trait yet treat possession immunity differently. Same with Mountain, they should have left it alone. This would have left open the option of creating new traits that protect against the Mega versions like the Abomination trait protects against all forms of possessions. Lost opportunity....

.... or maybe it's not too late to change this!

Oh and I do like the introduction of recently possessed and frozen. It exists for stun, so why not for the other controls!?!

Edit: And one bit isn't quite clear. Since recently possessed is a status effect but status effects are now NOT protecting against all forms of possession, is recently possessed protecting against Hacked, etc. or not. If not, that would make exclusive possession way too OP in light of all the other changes!

@David-ML said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

Edit: And one bit isn't quite clear. Since recently possessed is a status effect but status effects are now NOT protecting against all forms of possession, is recently possessed protecting against Hacked, etc. or not. If not, that would make exclusive possession way too OP in light of all the other changes!

I can't wait for SP to sell us the same toons with the same skills all over again. Wheee!!!!

New skills:
Petrify, Immobilize, etc (aka freeze, but can't be blocked, and not subject to "recently <status>")
Concussion, Blacked-out, etc (aka stun)

I think these changes are for the best and better for the long term health of the game. That was bound to happen sooner or later, doing the mistake of releasing such a powerful monster as Thalassa (basically unstoppable with some skillsets and paired with some other mates) just precipitated all this. Over time I think more monsters benefit from it. The recently stun/freeze/possessed is a good thing to avoid control spamming and give a good opportunity to support monsters to shine even better; it avoids the speed to re-dominate the whole meta (which was a thing reintroduced with thalassa), re-empower some traits and gives a chance to all monsters to potentially get a turn and I don't see the bad side in that last one. Sure there are some drawbacks like the Celestial trait basically just becoming an "immune to stun + bleed"(concerns only 4 monsters though) but I think the benefits for the gameplay are higher than the drawbacks.
The only thing I think may still need thinking is regarding the exclusive possessions: it would appear then than evading this control will just be a privilege of Abomination and Gravedigger traits (these traits still works that way right @Carlos? )? if these trait still blocks exclusive possession then the drawback is relatively minor but still worrying as there is no possibility to protect other monsters against them (that leads me to think than if anything, Hackster and talos certainly are not getting nerfed but newly empowered): and regarding hacked is there a recently "hacked" status too? if not there should be as all controls should be consistent IMO. And as @VargRanger mentioned what happens regarding the possibility to throw a megafreeze on a monster already megafrozen/megastunned (in which case recently frozen/stunned does not apply yet)?
I also like the idea of mountain trait becoming a bigger threat again as its name should make them supposed to be.
Overall I understand players not being happy with it but I think it is for the best , and I am relatively supportive of this move which was certainly not easy to make from SP's point of view. I am against the possibility to spam controls skills so I think it is a good direction, I just hope it will be relatively bug free though ;).

next move will be to cancel all our legendary monsters and turn back every account to level 1.

This fundamentally shifts game mechanics and strategies. In games where the cost of entry is moderate and players have ready access to common resources, players can adapt to major changes while still feeling as if their monetary and time investment is honored.

This isn't one of those games. This is a game where it could cost an individual up to $100 or more to purchase a Xiron the Ruby through a gambling based reward box, and an additional $450 in gambling based reward boxes to purchase enough elementium to rank Xiron to rank 5. Other monsters require varying levels of investment to progress. Some of that can be replaced by acquiring resources like elementium through in game mechanics, but the pace of that is slow enough that those monsters will be largely irrelevant by the time they are matured. Pulling the proverbial rug out from under players with that level of investment not only invalidates past purchases, it also signals that future purchases will be similarly honored. With the gambling nature of many purchase options already, it is never quite clear whether one will get what one is paying for. Objectively, changes like this will likely leave many wondering if they will then keep what they get, even if they got what they paid for.

While I can empathise with the challenges faced by chain controls and I am nowhere near the current end game meta, this implementation seems poorly thought out. A more incremental method that tweaks that which is not wholly broken might be a growing, stackable resistance - each turn spent under the effects of a control gives 15% additional resistance to a subsequent control of that type. That resistance fades when a level passes where no control of any type is in use.

@meowr said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

... make skill swapping free for 2 months...

Yes, zero cost skill changes would be appropriate for a time long enough to respec after experiencing the impact, IMO.

@Yomi-Que said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

I'm not very insightful on policies, terms of service or user agreement (or any of those legal phrases), but do they reserve the right to alter/change monster's attributes that are purchased with real money?

Yes, they do.

Per Take Two's LIMITED SOFTWARE WARRANTY AND LICENSE AGREEMENT:

"Except as prohibited by applicable law, Licensor has the absolute right to manage, regulate, control, modify, suspend, and/or eliminate such VC [Virtual Currency] and/or VG [Virtual Goods] as it sees fit in its sole discretion, and Licensor shall have no liability to you or anyone else for the exercise of such rights."

The agreement is subject to the laws of the State of New York. I am not a practitioner in that jurisdiction so I do not know the constraints imposed on contractual freedom which might have a bearing. I would expect an entity of the size and sophistication of Take Two would have taken such things into account, though.

@David-ML said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

I am surprised that they applied this change also to the trait yet treat possession immunity differently.

Agree. The justification for leaving exclusive versions of possession out of this is not clear. Presumably it has to do with keeping the Abomination trait intact, but, well...

consistency Healthy game or whatever

This can be done 2 ways

1- introduce something new like how SP dealt with voltaik and thetys .. Introducing a new trait - anticipation - relic system without touching the monster itself
2- just nerf """ balance "" those 2 monsters and change skills after months\years of release

I was really happy that SP did it 1st way ..i am ok with meta change for healthier game and at same time without destroying what i was working on

Now the best summary is what carlos himself said before ""Easiest solution but also not fair "" ....
it take me as ftp nearly 5-6 months to save gems enough to rank 1 monster ! so i can get 2 fully ranked monsters with gems per year ,,it is a headache choosing what to rank and this is based on current traits ,skills info and on what sp officially said before so after a year sp just take the word back and introduce a new rule is my main biggest problem

What grantee that those rule will not change again ?! if the official confirmation is not that reliable .. Every time sp mess up things instead of proper fix they will just re change rules to make game healthy , balanced etc

If this really go live i think i will just quit the game . it is not a strategy game anymore ..and i am not a cash player where i can just throw few packs to get the right monsters for the current meta . i know ranking monsters for some is just few clicks but for me it is 5-6 months of painful saving

Thanks SP

@Sam said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

Please think about the repercussions of this, you are eliminating the usage of deniers, bad enough we have to deal with bulwark and nemesis and warmsters and tough traits thrown around nilly willy on monsters, now you also want to take away the ability to deny them?

To be honest, it is usually a bad idea to try to deny them in the first place.
Throwing poop and hope it sticks is usually not the best way to secure victory.

Again a denier is supposed to deny, that how their moves were chosen, that what they are runed for, if they can only deny for 1 turn then they are useless the next turn. Might as well be under cooldowns activated.

This is a huge change that affects monsters we bought and invested in for what they do. This is not balancing.

Well, even though I do not necessarily disagree with that, I remember someone making a very emotional plea to change how a monster works that had been around for over a year already and which had been one of the favourite monsters to rank for F2P.

Yes it is a great for the top players with warmasters and vips and nemesis who barely get denied anyway, not so good for us middle level players who have invested gems and elementium, cells and war coins in monsters like Baba Yaga and Kihaku and Nishant pet.

i am surprised that someone with a self claimed great knowledge of the game has such a limited view on how to use those monsters. Maybe you should re examine their skills. Here's a start:

Baba Yaga: 'Yaga's Curse', 'Kid Eater', 'Rotten Blue Rose', 'Baba's Torment'.
Nishant's Pet: 'Nocturnal tackle', 'Infernal rabies' 'Gloomy Doom'.
Kihaku: 'Kiai', 'Kyodo', 'Mokuso', 'Katatedori'.

@Ekto-Gamat said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

@Sam said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

Please think about the repercussions of this, you are eliminating the usage of deniers, bad enough we have to deal with bulwark and nemesis and warmsters and tough traits thrown around nilly willy on monsters, now you also want to take away the ability to deny them?

To be honest, it is usually a bad idea to try to deny them in the first place.
Throwing poop and hope it sticks is usually not the best way to secure victory.

You don't say. News flash we don't all have your 130s and X strength and 1 shot kills. "Trying" to deny them is often our best shot.

Again a denier is supposed to deny, that how their moves were chosen, that what they are runed for, if they can only deny for 1 turn then they are useless the next turn. Might as well be under cooldowns activated.

This is a huge change that affects monsters we bought and invested in for what they do. This is not balancing.

Well, even though I do not necessarily disagree with that, I remember someone making a very emotional plea to change how a monster works that had been around for over a year already and which had been one of the favourite monsters to rank for F2P.

LOL. Still butt hurt over Darmith BG ? I have been away from the forum for how long now and still not over it? It is hilarious.
But ok let's go there.
That monster's move description did not meet what it does and other monsters who had same moves description and already in game did not do what he did. He was a violation of what already existed. On the other hand recently frozen and possessed do not even exist.

That plea affected one monster who was illogically one shot hitting when he was meant as a support, this affects dozens of monsters ability to deny when they are meant as deniers.

That monster was in game for a year u say? This changes something that has been there since frozen and possessed were introduced. White walker, the first freezer was there since its debut. Possessed was there since Razfeesh was there. Not the same and u know it.

Yes it is a great for the top players with warmasters and vips and nemesis who barely get denied anyway, not so good for us middle level players who have invested gems and elementium, cells and war coins in monsters like Baba Yaga and Kihaku and Nishant pet.

i am surprised that someone with a self claimed great knowledge of the game has such a limited view on how to use those monsters. Maybe you should re examine their skills. Here's a start:

Baba Yaga: 'Yaga's Curse', 'Kid Eater', 'Rotten Blue Rose', 'Baba's Torment'.
Nishant's Pet: 'Nocturnal tackle', 'Infernal rabies' 'Gloomy Doom'.
Kihaku: 'Kiai', 'Kyodo', 'Mokuso', 'Katatedori'.

Oh thank u so much for listing the moves. Opening their wiki page was too tough.

Again Ekto if i was on untamable or amab with ur X health runes and nemesis and warmasters, i would not care much either. U dont even need deniers, ur wars are mostly based on health and outlasting.
Frostbite, Kihaku, Baba yaga, Caillech, Krampus, Nishant Pet whose main purpose is to be deniers effectively become a 1 turn use monster. Yes they have other moves but no one uses Baba Yaga for blue rose.

Based on this I want to suggest a new change! After a hitter kills a monster all other monsters on its team should become immune to damage! We can all agree 1 shot killing a monster is more powerful than it losing a turn so if we want to handicap deniers, why not hitters too let us introduce a recently healed status to limit those relics, recently total blinded, recently cooldown activated, etc.

@Sam said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

@Ekto-Gamat said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

To be honest, it is usually a bad idea to try to deny them in the first place.
Throwing poop and hope it sticks is usually not the best way to secure victory.

You don't say. News flash we don't all have your 130s and X strength and 1 shot kills. "Trying" to deny them is often our best shot.

Really. Rank 5 monster's life is relatively high compared to monsters at lower levels. Monsters at higher levels are usually also packed with diamond armour relics. One shotting monsters at lower levels should be easier.

Well, even though I do not necessarily disagree with that, I remember someone making a very emotional plea to change how a monster works that had been around for over a year already and which had been one of the favourite monsters to rank for F2P.

LOL. Still butt hurt over Darmith BG ? I have been away from the forum for how long now and still not over it? It is hilarious.
But ok let's go there.
That monster's move description did not meet what it does and other monsters who had same moves description and already in game did not do what he did. He was a violation of what already existed. On the other hand recently frozen and possessed do not even exist.

I never was hurt by Darmith's BG, which you would know if you had followed the same thread you started. I agreed with the 'nerf'.
The principle is the same though: people invested in this monster for a reason. SP employees apparently even had confirmed that that is how he should work. You saw no problem in changing how he functioned, because he was bothering you. Now that you think a change is not to your benefit however ... makes all your other arguments not so convincing.

That plea affected one monster who was illogically one shot hitting when he was meant as a support, this affects dozens of monsters ability to deny when they are meant as deniers.

That monster was in game for a year u say? This changes something that has been there since frozen and possessed were introduced. White walker, the first freezer was there since its debut. Possessed was there since Razfeesh was there. Not the same and u know it.

So after one year is OK, but after three years is not?

Yes it is a great for the top players with warmasters and vips and nemesis who barely get denied anyway, not so good for us middle level players who have invested gems and elementium, cells and war coins in monsters like Baba Yaga and Kihaku and Nishant pet.

i am surprised that someone with a self claimed great knowledge of the game has such a limited view on how to use those monsters. Maybe you should re examine their skills. Here's a start:

Baba Yaga: 'Yaga's Curse', 'Kid Eater', 'Rotten Blue Rose', 'Baba's Torment'.
Nishant's Pet: 'Nocturnal tackle', 'Infernal rabies' 'Gloomy Doom'.
Kihaku: 'Kiai', 'Kyodo', 'Mokuso', 'Katatedori'.

Oh thank u so much for listing the moves. Opening their wiki page was too tough.

Well, apparently.

Again Ekto if i was on untamable or amab with ur X health runes and nemesis and warmasters, i would not care much either. U dont even need deniers, ur wars are mostly based on health and outlasting.

You don't need to play the Nemesis card with me. I have 0 at rank 5. I have one warmaster at rank 1. My pvp team consists of this one warmaster, a breedable and a team shop monster. None of them have full X runes. Nothing there a player of your level could not have. Also, if you think denial plays no part at the higher levels then I wonder what all those Xirons and Thalassas are doing there currently.

Frostbite, Kihaku, Baba yaga, Caillech, Krampus, Nishant Pet whose main purpose is to be deniers effectively become a 1 turn use monster. Yes they have other moves but no one uses Baba Yaga for blue rose.

They have other excellent moves. You make it sound as if they have become utterly useless with this change, which is equally ridiculous. Free skill changing would be nice though, as is suggested earlier in this thread. And some other form of compensation as well.

@Sam said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

You don't say. News flash we don't all have your 130s and X strength and 1 shot kills. "Trying" to deny them is often our best shot.

Well, no. Precision then denial is preferable. Still will be.

Oh thank u so much for listing the moves. Opening their wiki page was too tough.

I think the point Ekto was making is that you know the monsters you identified have other skills available to them besides denial. We should be allowed to change them at no cost IMO.

Again Ekto if i was on untamable or amab with ur X health runes and nemesis and warmasters, i would not care much either. U dont even need deniers, ur wars are mostly based on health and outlasting.

Life runes don't help against denial lock.

And, lol at trying to paint Ekto as some p2w elite. Yes he is elite, no he does not have the big spender arsenal. His accomplishments are down to long years and very keen skills.

Frostbite, Kihaku, Baba yaga, Caillech, Krampus, Nishant Pet whose main purpose is to be deniers effectively become a 1 turn use monster. Yes they have other moves but no one uses Baba Yaga for blue rose.

Perhaps they will now. Seriously though, maybe those monsters do not have to be relegated to denial one trick ponies anymore.

Based on this I want to suggest a new change! After a hitter kills a monster all other monsters on its team should become immune to damage! We can all agree 1 shot killing a monster is more powerful than it losing a turn so if we want to handicap deniers, why not hitters too let us introduce a recently healed status to limit those relics, recently total blinded, recently cooldown activated, etc.

Or, why not have hitters denial locked for an entire battle and never get a chance to attack at all.

Oh, wait, that's how things stand already.

....what gets me is that SP has the balls to make such a radical change, yet they don't seem to have the balls to finally fix Nautilus-1....???!!!

@David-ML Yeah, but Nautilus-1 is one of the only epics worth buying with gems, and SP knows that. It's really money as to why it'll never be fixed.

@MonstrousManiac said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

@David-ML Yeah, but Nautilus-1 is one of the only epics worth buying with gems, and SP knows that. It's really money as to why it'll never be fixed.

thats not the reason, I told this ones or twice before but the team isn't in agreement about what should be done with him (sort of stand-of i guess)

@Haka-Taka said in Gameplay changes (October 2018) Feedback:

consistency Healthy game or whatever

This can be done 2 ways

1- introduce something new like how SP dealt with voltaik and thetys .. Introducing a new trait - anticipation - relic system without touching the monster itself
2- just nerf """ balance "" those 2 monsters and change skills after months\years of release

I was really happy that SP did it 1st way ..i am ok with meta change for healthier game and at same time without destroying what i was working on

Now the best summary is what carlos himself said before ""Easiest solution but also not fair "" ....
it take me as ftp nearly 5-6 months to save gems enough to rank 1 monster ! so i can get 2 fully ranked monsters with gems per year ,,it is a headache choosing what to rank and this is based on current traits ,skills info and on what sp officially said before so after a year sp just take the word back and introduce a new rule is my main biggest problem

What grantee that those rule will not change again ?! if the official confirmation is not that reliable .. Every time sp mess up things instead of proper fix they will just re change rules to make game healthy , balanced etc

If this really go live i think i will just quit the game . it is not a strategy game anymore ..and i am not a cash player where i can just throw few packs to get the right monsters for the current meta . i know ranking monsters for some is just few clicks but for me it is 5-6 months of painful saving

Thanks SP

I hope this post deserves a dedicated thread, that how fair it is players were led to believe and assured (by a game designer) that an important part of the game play wouldn't change but now come to be broken! So many investment has been made because of that assurance.
I'm sure Carlos wouldn't know this change 6 (or more) months ago. But whoever made this decision don't have anything to explain about this?
@Fox please get someone to answer our curiosity.

@Marianne-van-Es Team are not in agreement about nautilus but are in agreement about messing up the game for a lot of players whole point of Mega stun is that it is Mega so should hit kihuki basically rendered pointless after this change if he uses freeze and possess they both hit his next turn is pointless totally crazy change to me. And just another social point decision to try and make game less and less fun but to go back to my original point nautilus move is not working as stated so shouldn’t matter if they are in agreement or not it was good enough for darmiths bg same rules should be applied agreement or not.