Comments in here seem very appropriate and I hope useful to the SP team. I’m likewise sad to see Hara Taka leave but I’m in the same boat as my teammate @Meowr in not feeling very hopeful and logging in maybe once a day. Our tops bases are in the same shape which means wars have shut down which means any active player won’t stay much longer. I’m a software developer myself and always wanted feedback and especially why someone was shifting away from my software towards something else. I’m very pleased with the mods and devs here, especially
@Carlos who has a good ear
In a nutshell the game has gotten waaaaaaaaaay too expensive to play, both in terms of $ and effort. This combined with major powercreep and no confidence $ spent on monsters won’t be wasted due to nerfs or rule changes has been very disappointing.
@Meowr mentioned the events. The ones with new ever increasingly OP monsters are designed to be impossible to get except for significant gems (progressives and mazes), and offers of old monsters are not interesting as you need so very many cells to get to rank 5. The 72hr system literally punishes players who grow in levels. This is insane. On the team races three of us basically have to bankroll the event. There are dozens of nodes utterly impossible to pass without just buying them out, it’s like a big dialogue box that says ‘Please enter $10 to continue to play” which often repeats the next node. Breeding events? Low, low odds gambling that costs as many gems to rush eggknocks as it would cost to buy the reward monster outright. Then you have to pay for yet another vault slot to hold it.
Ironically the change to the control system was both a great much needed “fix” to address the current meta and to improve the future of the game, while at the same time left many spenders feeling like dot com bust stockholders seeing their favorite holdings slashed in value, wary for the future.
I must also agree with the posters here who note gambling has gotten completely out of hand. The Nemesis dungeons were a fantastically good invention that allowed regular folks to get some great monsters over a long time frame and encouraged them to rank up their best monsters. Then as they reached 70 cells and were dying for one more to reach the minimum 80... they disappeared. Not only that, their best skills in group 4 could no longer be reached at 105, but at 115. A massive increase in $ for the same effectiveness. It wasn’t so very long ago VIP monsters were the pinnacle of the game and for $19.99 you could get the one you want. Now you could easily spend $49 or $99 on a chest and still not get what you want... and new OP event top prizes make every VIP but Zyla look like a joke.
Standard response is ‘well no one is forcing you to pay or gamble or play the 3-4 concurrent events’, and that’s true, but the gap between f2p and p2w has become a chasm. Again as a dev I want SP to make money and thrive, but as a player I am sick to my stomach at home much I have spent on the game, 10-20x more than all previous games combined. And it’s been fun, but I’m done with spending ($0 or possibly a gem pack per month). And with that, my chances to compete for new exciting stuff in virtually every event goes poof. Am I exaggerating? Let’s look at what is going on today:
- My new Zahra is hatching. Wowza her skills at 100 are bad. Love the trait and caster status but not very viable at 100.
- Team war facing yet another team flush with X runes and purples and 130s. We have no chance.
- 72hr. I finally went over 100 and will skip as I won’t even come close to getting top minster which I would melt into cells anyway
- Cain is being released, though I have no chance to get him. He’s got multiple traits and evasion and xtra turns and makes many of my favorite monsters look like a joke.
- Viktors Lab. Man I have spent sooooooo much in the past in these. Initially a great way to get a quick rank one monster now I see I need 370 to 740 for every one I care about and can’t afford to keep this up.
- Epic breeding. “Best” Epics? Tao Tao and Frank N Stein? Better just to buy the current epic triple pack. Though I would need 3-8 packs to rank what I have.
- Hunters maze with stuff I already have ranked plus a great new monster I have no chance to reach
- Offers are no longer $19.99 (which before ML I would never spend on one item), but $50 for orbs, $50 for Burotgor one Rune and a relic crapshoot, or $100 for rank 0 monster literally no one uses plus $70 worth of gems and a $10 rune (????)
Overall I’m at the point where I have invested very heavily in the game but feel like future progress will only come now by doubling down on $ to play. Not trying to dump on the game and especially not devs, just being honest about where I’m at and why I am barely logging in anymore. I have enough of a gem and orb stockpile I will ride out the release of all WM, when I expect they will start a new round of must-have super powerful game additions like maybe their pets when the $ cycle starts all over again. I was the top You Tuber for a game called Rival Kingdoms and quit cold turkey shortly after they went nuts with gambling and team peer pressure spending and massive powercreep. I hope SP doesn’t continue down that path but I’m certain this path is not random but is a proven approach to maximize revenue. Awkward situation for devs who I know love to create fun exciting new things the players will love while the corporate strategy works against that to increase player frustration til they bail.
I and others have reported what seems to be an increase in the number of complete misses on attacks, with even deniers with multiple modes of denial missing far too often. @Carlos and others said nothing has changed in the code and it will take more than anecdotal reports to want to look into it more. So I decided to do the experiments.
Hypothesis: player attacks are missing far too often, in particular with multimode deny attacks like freeze+possess by Kihaku.
Approach: collect data on adventure map node 377 where we have 3 hardened defenders: 20% chance of a status attack failing to land when they are hit.
Expt 1 - run single mode AOE deny attacks and see how often we get 0/1/2/3 misses; used Rabbish and Total Blind.
Expected % hit vs miss: 80% hit, 20% miss on any one attack,
Actual hit % was 76% after over 100 attacks. No difference.
Expected distribution of landing TB on 3/2/1/0 hardened monsters:
51% | 38% | 10% | 1%
Actual distribution after 80 rounds:
50% | 43% | 6% | 0%. No statistical difference.
Conclusion: single effect spells are landing as expected.
Expt 2 - ok now let's see if things change at all when using attacks with two independent status effects. Used Baba Yaga's Kid Eater with negate healing and dmg reduction, and Kihaku's Kuzushi with freeze and possess.
I measured two different results: distribution of how many total effects landed vs 3 enemies (could be 6/5/4/3/2/1/0), and the count per defender of how often both effects landed, one landed, or none landed.
Results 1 - (flawed!! I'll explain in a minute!)
First test I got results matching my hypothesis of missing too often. The % of attacks which landed 2/1/0 effects were expected to be 64%/32%/4%. Actual results after 100 runs were 52%, 26%, 22%, which correctly had dual hits twice as often as single effect landings, but way too many complete whiffs. At this point I realized, sheepishly, I had not looked to see on a whiff whether the attack itself actually landed or not! (Doh!!!) Since the AOE's used have only 90% accuracy, the chance of making the attack check for all three is not 100% but 72%. And you'll miss the attack 28% of the time. When the attack misses, no status effect check is made: it misses too - or with two potential effects, both miss.
Repeat of experiment, counting results only when the attack landed!
Data collected: two/one/zero effects landing per monster, expecting 64%/32%/4% if everything is in order. Actual results after 160 attacks...
65% both effects landed (104/160)
30% one effect landed (48/160)
5% no effects landed (8/160)
Follow-up: I then ran a small number of tests on node 411 on the map with three normal monsters, none hardened. Results were as expected, no oddities there.
--> Conclusion: the frequency that deny or negative effects land is as expected according to the accuracy of the spell and hardening effects. The number of misses may be frustrating, but it's not bugged.
Discussion: I'm kind of glad I messed up the experiment the first time. I was convinced from the frequency of missing both denies, or missing all denies on multiple monsters, was considerably too high. However, once you account for the fact that AOE's miss, everything fell into place. Almost 30% of the time an AOE is going to miss at least one attack completely which means no effects will land. On top of that, if a foe is hardended, once the attack hit is made, you have only a 2 in 3 chance of landing both status effects, and 4% chance both will miss. Make that a tough defender and you should expect seeing both/one/no effects land change to 42%, 46%, 12%. Bulwark? 25%/50%/25%.
Finally, if you're curious, what is the chance of landing those "two stun attacks" or "two nanovirus" attacks? IF the attack itself hits, you should see:
- 100% effect lands with no immunities
- 96% chance of landing vs hardened
- 88% chance of landing vs tough-35%
- 75% chance of landing it vs Bulwark.
But keep in mind you'll miss 10% of your attacks with a normal AOE.
I hope this analysis is helpful, let me know if you have questions or comments.
Still early to tell but I’ll give some feedback
- Survival mode defense is extremely important to know! It shouldn’t be buried in a FAQ
- It’s so hard to know where you stand, no indicators like have I placed a team in this territory, and poor navigation makes it slow to find out
- Have left/right arrows to quickly go from one BG to another and not just back out and over.
- Show mini icons on big map for restrictions.
- Give some visual indication when you have placed a team on defense (shifted color for territory background, or a star when you have filled a slot)
- In monster list to choose defenders don’t just show remaining choices, show used ones greyed out. Many times I had no options and had to search the whole bloody map to see where a valid choice was deployed elsewhere where I can make another choice
- As a team leader with recent joins it kills me that I can’t boot freeloaders who have placed 0 defenses. I’m even more worried I may not be able to boot them before the Olympus Race begins immediately after!! (Bax Attacks Brigades if any very active player needs a slot
- Big fear for me (and big hope for SP I would think) is that victory goes to the team willing to gem the most to revive good attackers. 8-\ There should be some cooldown even if it’s like 6 hrs. Maybe once I go thru the attack phase I’ll change my mind in that, hard to tell now
Despite this feedback I’m looking forward to playing
@Ekto-Gamat yes the I infinite retry was bad, but with teammates playing on the road and seeing their best monsters die in a legit disconnect due to a poor WiFi signal, I would strongly urge SP to allow one disconnect per dungeon, with a dialog saying to make sure they have a strong signal when playing this dungeon
@Carlos Ok, I'll take you up on some feedback on tweaks to monsters who will be affected by the 50% bug fix and/or who were recently rebalanced. There are a ton of other monsters who could use re-visiting for balance but let's start with these Pardon the length of the post but as you know these are complex issues worth thinking through carefully.
Key consideration -- a 50% skill is highly appropriate for a group 1 skill which is replaced later by a 100% version, or it's good for a skill which you would use anyway but has a chance for some extra oomph (like a strong attack with 50% chance for DoT or status effect). It's a terribly mechanism where the main skill and main role of the monster depends on it landing (like a group 3 deny skill for a denier).
I went through about every monster with a 50% issue where I put effort into getting and ranking, and honestly, I was surprised that in almost every case the upcoming fix is going to be fine without further tweaking.
== Monsters really needing (further) rebalancing badly after recent changes
Vanitus - this poor guy has been around a while and never popular. It's not even clear if he is meant as a supporter or attacker with his only AOE just 40 dmg and resistable. His signature skill and what made him unique was a skill mirror that lasted several rounds (was it three turns?), balanced by the fact it burned himself. They didn't like the duration of the skill mirror and reduced it to ONE turn, and kept in the self-burn. Yikes! Contrast with say Lui Calibre or many of the newest generation of monsters and he is simply pathetic. I specifically bought several Vanitus eggs to rank him up - and there was no bug whatsoever. To have him crippled with no compensation was terrible, and the extend of the nerf was really too much.
--> Give him back his signature skill, a multi-turn skill mirror. Make it two turns instead of 3 (too long) or 1 (too short). If it's kept one turn that self-burn absolutely needs to go. If anything, that could be burns all enemies and keep the 1 turn skill mirror.
The Ringer - while never very popular his Death Knell had a base power far exceeding what was written and designed - a 70 AOE instead of 30. Clearly that fix was due, but a long time coming. So long in fact players reasonbly wondered if the error was in the description or the skill. He was fun however due to this, especially in team wars. Even against other darks that was effectively a 35AOE with bleed. After the fix he has a 30 damage resistable attack with bleed, and 30 dmg with nightmares, and two good group 2 single target attacks. His other group 3 skills are a complete joke. Let's compare him with Wolfgang -- who has a group ONE AOE 35 1cd skill, a second group ONE AOE 30 skill that gives himself two turn evasion???? What on earth? Or compare to Hirondeleor. Hiro has a 40 dmg UNresisted AOE with bleed, and a 45 dmg dark AOE with nightmares. And he has a great self-buff and single tgt attack. Show The Ringer some love!
--> Death Knell should be 45 dmg AOE at a minimum. Dismal Chime up to 40. If you wanted to go further, making Ruined by the Bell carry a stun would be sweet. None of these changes would come close to overpowering him, but would bring him up to at least average power.
== Monsters which could use a minor adjustment for better rebalancing
- Xiron - I love control dice, and think there needs to be some compensation, but for reasons most players wouldn't notice. The key issue here is that when folks paid out a lot to get Xiron, you could get access to superb reliable AOE denies as early as level 105. I got all three versions but saw no rush to level up and was perennially short on food. The recent unannounced change to the Nemesis monster skill acquisition was not just painful but was super unfair. Now with the almost useless Mineral Blood as the only skill you can possibly get at 105, Laying Odds at 110 and Ruby Explosion at 115, players with Xiron's below lvl 110 don't have single reliable AOE deny, and this for the best denier in the game (and a costly one to get). You didn't fix an error (like you did when you eliminated ability to get group 4 before level 105), you aligned Nemesis skill gain to match Warmasters but only a long time after purchase.
--> do something to give a reliable AOE deny of some kind to Xiron before lvl 110
This will have no impact on most players who ranked him immediately or who have rank 2 or 3 already, but will be fair to those hurt by post-release changes or who get Xiron only now. Possibly make control dice 100% but for a "minor" control effect, Stun/Freeze/Possess and not the mega versions. That is imho a very reasonable group 2 skill for a nemesis monster. Perhaps adjust cooldown to 2 to compensate.
== Monsters where the 50% fix can stand as-is
Darmith BG - he is still darn good, no adjustment needed, though some compensation might still be an appropriate and kind gesture. He has a follow-up fire AOE, cleanse allies of debuffs, other good fire attacks, and team protection vs freeze and water.
Cloud - I will sorely miss Greyclaws Swing being AOE stun. But it's group 2, high damage, 0cd, and he has so many other good skills, Cloud needs no adjustment.
Shannara's BG -- Will also greatly miss the Great Anagram stun landing all the time, but with 45dmg and 1cd, it was designed to be a skill where the stun was an added bonus that would land on 1-2 monsters on average, not a main deny skill. So that one can stand.
--> Same for Oikawa. Stun was a nice bonus but he's not a denier.
Kihaku - again will sorely miss having multiple turns of reliable AOE deny as that is his main role and I've put in a ton of resources to rank him up. But one reliable AOE, one reliable single strike, and two skills with 50% chance for two separate denies is still a great monster.
Dungeon Master - Roll the Dice as a group 1 0cd skill really should be 50%; 100% was severely OP even though I will miss using it DM remains a great denier.
Zimnyaya - he will be sorely hurt by the 50% fix, but not inappropriately so. He has a megafreeze, an AOE freeze+stam-50%, AOE stun, plus choice of team immunity to freeze or various freeze hater skills or a 0cd spammable single freeze. With the 50% bug he also had a group 2 skill effectively 100% AOE freeze also giving Freeze hater to all allies. Overall, that's just too good, and it made Small Propoganda completely outclass the group 3 skill Massive Propoganda. The change to what was planned by design is appropriate.
Did I miss any key 50% monsters? What do other members of the community feel about the fix? I'll conclude by saying that having a public list of Known Bugs will go a LONG way toward reducing ill feelings when new bugs crop up that need to be fixed.
I think AOE trait disable + megafreeze is a WM worthy special but yeah that is too much for a grp 4 skill. It's like a better version of Ingenica's ultimate. Perhaps trait disable single enemy then AOE megafreeze would be best? Crytoan at 100 gets AOE megafreeze so lvl 120 needed to throw in one TD would be great. Really good to see there should not be any ridiculously high stamina requirements. 80 for the best grp 4 is plenty high. The elite Navy one seems really, really meh for a lvl 115 skill; that's something I expect from like a lvl 50 Incognita
Regarding the trait, I'm not sure whether to be glad that Elvira didn't start a trend of ever increasing OP, or sad that it would be the very weakest trait of any WM yet. One way to make it more interesting and useful would be all allies start with Stamina Regen or Precision. As it stands now a Ruby or fast possessor would crush a team led by Thalassa. Best wishes on final design and playtesting!
I have another odd reason for wanting to reorder. I have sons with special needs who love to play but can’t read well, so they don’t choose theirattacks very strategically - yet they do prefer to use them in order from left to right. So I try to help them choose good skills and the order is critical
@callumarachnoid hehe, I doubt my results every time my double deny Attacks whiff three times and their Nishant’s Pet who is blind and dazed successfully hits and possesses my nemesis with Bulwark!
What you say is of course correct, this is offered not as proof but just finally some hard data. I welcome others to do testing when they see really strange results. Most aren’t into that sort of thing but as a math geek I enjoy it. Even though I was reeeeeeally hoping to show something was broken and needed fixing
@David-ML I’m not sure what’s going on there exactly. I’ve heard mention that in some checks even supposedly 100% is capped at 98% to-hit. The damage math was always multiplicative. Double and triple damage stacked has always been six-fold dmg, +500% not +100+200%. The in game text was wrong for a while but now seems to be more accurate. While we can visibly and immediately see the results of damage calculations while to-hit is behind the scenes, how to-hit is calculated has for most been shrouded in mystery. If to-hit is also multiplicative that explains a lot: why total blind isn’t helped by precision, why blind and daze hits more than 25%, etc. We may see the AI hit more dazed and blind because the humans are smart enough to use that turn to refresh or remove debuffs
@Hari well not every new trait has to be OP to the point of breaking the game
I like Team Haste as it is very thematic. While it doesn’t sound as great as others it is very hard to counter, it will help fight other WM. Anti-anticipation is another thought, making Volt a threat again but since he is not triple speed it shouldn’t be OP?
The other thematic idea I associate with Thunder is dazing. Allies immune to daze would be really weak, but how about all enemies start with Daze? Almost scared to suggest that as I would find it super annoying to face.
More feedback now that we’re done attacking. Context: we have qualified and will win, vs a weaker team who filled up the front ok but only filled 1/3 slots in the rear.
Good points of the Battlegrounds Event
- Novel and fairly interesting event
- Very nice to just have to win the battle not have all 3 monsters survive
- Favored strategic thought not blind Charging
- Rewards ok, though they could be a little higher
Areas for Improvement
- Qualification was too tough. If we face an equal team who filled as many defenses as we did, neither team would have qualified
- All or nothing prizes for qualification. Team race has it right, 4 laps to qualify and prizes go up the more you work. Here a team working hard and gemming several reviews but who ends up a few thousand short gets absolutely nothing
- We reeeeeally disliked that attacker teams were frozen, unable to feed or swap a relic. Makes total sense defense is frozen but keep it like team wars where attackers are live not frozen
- Our Team is diverse. Lower level players with few legendaries were utterly useless
- Leaders were flying blind. I have NO idea who was active attacking, who I needed to contact to get going, etc
- Inferface was terribly clunky. It’s as if the devs never had to play a war using it. Just a few examples of many...
- show runes on screen choosing opponent
- if you revive a monster select it too
- on the territory screen show us how many eligible monsters we have left and give right/left arrows to scroll quickly thru different BG’s
- Heated debate among players about no cooldown for attackers. Most hated this and felt a 6-8 hr cooldown would have been ideal. To be honest I see why. We would have just run over our opponents trivially without hindering revivals
- Players with a high # of monsters attacked way, way more often than others. Perhaps allow some kind of cooldown but cap how many times one player can attack, or kill cooldown/revival for them after some set # of attacks
- Inability for leaders to kick deadweight mid event was ludicrous. Seriously, that needs to go out the window.
I must simultaneously congratulation SP for a novel and interesting event but chide them for what most of our team thought were “features” designed to force high gem usage and grab cash rather than thinking thru was in the best interest of the full range of players including lower lvl and f2p
Oh gosh, Llum. I forgot how awesome Powerful Discrepancies is, group 2 AOE “50%” stun, 1cd. She (Magical Matriach) can recoup a reliable AOE stun in group 4, but like Xiron above I’m in sorry shape with my lvl 105 Llum because they changed skill acquisition after purchase. Now there’s no hope to get it before lvl 115. Ugh.
@Carlos — one idea that would be of HUGE benefit and received with cheers by the community would be a one time weekend of 0 cost skill changes and/or rune changes at your end of month bug fix release. This would be useful compensation without having to actually give out gems or more complicated mechanisms. If that could be extended to allowing Nemesis skill changes among group 4 that would be a fair response to the players really hurt by skill acquisition changes after purchase I don’t think that’s OP because it only impact lvl 105-110 Nemesis monsters purchased with real money under better skill acquisition rules. When people played the in game challenge and saw spells like Ruby Explosion they had NO way of knowing that spell was impossible to get before rank 3. If your team could consider this it would be greatly appreciated. In fact, that might even tempt more new players to buy those chests and not miss out.
New info on Taringa on Upcoming Warmaster Thalassa skills. (Thanks Taringa!!) Here is my rough translation from Spanish — [edited to fix a few]
"Seas Express" Deals low physical damage to one enemy.
"Thetys Mom" "Inflicts moderate water damage to an enemy."
"Distant Waves" "Inflicts moderate water damage to an enemy. Applies drowned to an enemy."
Thalassa's Chosen" "Applies damage boost to an ally. Applies Freeze Hater to an ally."
“Katsukana" "It has a 50% chance to freeze an enemy, it has 50% of probability of drowning an enemy. "
"Low Tides" "Eliminates all positive effects of the target. +1 extra turn"
"Ocean Rain" "Inflicts special moderate damage to an enemy damage to all allies. "
“Ice Needles" "Freeze an enemy, apply drowned to one enemy.”
... Skill grp 3...
"Crowd Refresh" "Eliminates all negative state effects of all allies. Grants 50% of stamina to all allies. "
“Weakness Exploit" "Apply Hate frozen to all allies. Apply stamina regeneration to all allies. "
"Abysal Pressure" "Inflicts moderate water damage to all enemies. May freeze all enemies. Apply drowned to all enemies."
... Skill grp 4...
Cryotan Breath" "Deals moderate water damage to all enemies. Mega freeze to an enemy. He needs recovery. "
“Waves Momentum" "Gives 50% stamina to all allies. +1 extra turn”
“Elite Navy" "Gives double damage to all allies." Applies Precision to all Allies "
“Abyss Bottom" "Disables the traits of all enemies.
Mega freeze to all enemies." (* I think this is an error, as it matches the last and presumably ultimate skill)
“Deep Warmaster Fury" "Disables the traits of all enemies.
Mega freeze to all enemies. ". (The ultimate skill)
I can’t tell what the group 4 skills are but AOE megafreeze+drowned is surely the rank 4 lvl 120 skill?!
No info given yet on her trait. What do you guys think?
I think Gregorz of Lyria has either an incorrect skill description or unintended behavior for Cleaning Potion. It says "Deals heavy earth damage. Removes all negative status effects from itself. Gives Stun Immunity to itself." I got total blinded by Balor and thought I would use that skill to get stun immunity even though I should do no damage as that is checked before self cleanse per description. I was happy but surprised to see the damage land due to removal of negative effects first. I think that behavior is fine, but if that's intended could you please tweak the description to match it? (Most players are now watching the order of effects very closely after Elivra and increased use of skills that remove positive effects and do something else). Thanks @Carlos and devs!
My thoughts are a little different. I agree these need to be addressed but a blanket “fix” would hurt more than it helps. There are so many monsters who are viable as options because of the 50% being 100%. For example, Shannara’s Bodyguard. Is there any issue with that monster being overused? No, I never see him in war or PvP. With 100% on Great Anagram Stun the monster is perfectly balanced and useful. True 50% deny skills are useless for their intended purpose, while a good addition to a skill that is otherwise useful in its own right. You’re right that it’s nuts that Kihaku’s Katsu Kinken should be his primary skill! Xiron needs some balancing perhaps, but adjusting Control Dice to a 50/50 short leaves players with a Ruby below level 110 from having a single reliable AOE control skill, which is ridiculous. Fixing the glitch on super popular creatures is probably good, but “fixing” the percent on marginally useful monsters made viable with 100% would decrease the already too low monster diversity.
Some of the recent “balance fixes” haven’t fixed things but completely crippled creatures. What they did to Vanitus is a travesty. The “fix” live today to The Ringer turned him from a fun and unique monster into one relegated to the trash can. Instead of increasing diversity by truly balancing monsters and addressing fixes thoughtfully they are releasing ridiculously OP monsters like Charmless. I agree with one teammate regarding the July balances that “Social Point seems to be focusing on the wrong issues and monsters with these so called balances.” I’m concerned they will “fix” Nautilus for example, after most players have put a lot of resources into leveling him up, only to turn him into a completely useless epic.
True fixing is great, true balancing is great, but wrecking non-overused or already weak monsters is terrible, and blanket across the board nerfs would be super frustrating and irresponsible.
I just noticed something rather important in considering evasion counters. The text description of effects is worth reading more carefully...
I’m using Llum in Elvira dungeon and am on the evasion nodes. Using Sabotage Rations to dispel evasion works but fails to land any other effects. Yet Accepted Fate not only dispels but does land blind and other effects. Different order? Here is the text...
Sabotaged Rations “Deals moderate special dmg to all enemies. Applies Special Weakness and Stamina Leak to all enemies. Removes positive status effects from all enemies” —> it does so IN THAT ORDER so dmg and weakness and Stam leak fail.
Accepted Fate “Deals Hvy Special dmg to all enemies. Removes positive status effects and applies Blind and Damage Reduction to all enemies”. It does things in that order so damage fails, evasion is cleared, then blind and DR can land. Perhaps this is well known to most, but I thought it would be good to point this out
If the spell description text is correct with Samael then Plague spell should miss on daze whereas Pestilence should hit on bleeding for their secondary effects clearing evasion.
@Carlos et al — Scrap Warrior’s Moonshine Bottle skill is missing when he has Evasion. I thought this was an off random miss but in multiple battles now with Elvira, he has always missed on himself (No Artifact Hater on self) As a buff skill I don’t think this should be the case. Thanks!
First impression is not good on these. First of all, we don’t want a consistent experience meaning every key deny gets treated identically. We want a consistent game in the sense of no bugs or quirks, crystal clear and unchanging skill descriptions. We want game effects to be consistent with skill descriptions, not the kind these changes would bring.
This really is a slap in the face for all who paid or worked hard to get and rank Megastun, megafreeze, and every single mode denier around. (Btw Hackster at least has an AOE Stun). It also guts several other favorites like Kihaku vs monsters with a single immunity trait or a bulwark as they won’t be able to deny two turns in a row. People’s Rank 4-5 Kihaku did not come cheap, and they were bought with the expectation that game mechanics would not ruin them.
Two-turn possession was never sold as a different kind completely, just one that lasts longer. Megastun and Megafreeze were specifically sold as greater in power in addition to duration; I don’t think these should be nerfed.
If a trait is designed to block both call it “Total Immunity to xyz” and be sure to have the effect match the description.
To the cynic, which I’m not, this would seem to be a way to setup newer and cooler monsters which we will be expected to pay to rank with dual modes of denial or dual traits 8-\ It’s frustrating when developer time is focused on fixing things that aren’t broken (like no ‘recently frozen’ state which we are all fine with) and flip-flopping on fundamental questions like how possession immunity works.
With the October update on recent control skills, megacontrol immunities, and the discount on changing skills and runes, it’s clearly a good time to do some tweaking.
What thoughts do you all have on key changes you’re making on skills and/or runes?
Kihaku is very different after this and 50% fix. Kuzushi for sure, Mokuso looking more useful as an evasion buster, probably still Agatsu as the only other 100% deny, and Katsu Jinken? Or ignore one of those for Kiai or Kyudo?
Zimnyaya? Small Propoganda was killer, not as much at 50? New preferred skillset?
Any adjustments to Xiron, Nadiel the Flooder, or other deniers?
Thanks in advance
WM Zahra of Nature looks to be coming soon, new info on Taringa with provisional skills and trait. Reminde:these are not official, may be inaccurate, and are very subject to change. Still... they’re great fun to discuss
Zahra is likely the most supportive WM we’ve seen, not surprising given her element. Trait is listed as: Hardened 35%, gives all allies +50% life, and status caster: Control Immunity for 3 turns for all allies. Whoa! Life is super appriate and the status caster is phenomenal, though like evasion it can be dispelled. For a strong trait, what do her skills look like? Full list coming in English on Taringa tonight but here are some key ones:
- Remove all negative effects on allies and they take no damage except from Nature
- Remove negative effects on one ally + precision + 1 extra turn for ally
- Moderate special dmg to one enemy and all enemies weak to Nature
- AOE Poison and nature Damage
- Moderate Special Damage to one enemy, all allies Damage mirror
- Moderate Nature dmg to one enemy, grants all allies immunity to control
- Moderate Special dmg to one enemy, and makes all enemies weak to nature and special
- Moderate Nature dmg to one enemy and blocks all damage except Nature for all allies
(Ultimate is AOE remove positive and some mega control, and removes all negative effects from allies)
I don’t know which are group 4 but wow that is a great skillset!
Thoughts on trait or skills from players? Corrections from devs? (Smiles in direction of @Carlos)
Had to shake my head seeing on wiki the latest monster added - Beledig. Guess what trait? Tough. Skills? Single dmg with AOE poison AND extra turn. Self-evasion for 2 turns And extra turn. A delayed 3T kill as a group 2 skill... with extra turn?!?! Really tired of the crazy power creep. Seriously, why is every other new monster released WAY better than the majority of VIP monsters??
Let’s review just two...
Osur the Brave. Low damage AOE daze. A 50% stun. A 30% heal. Hit+regen. 3234 str.
Hydrox. Single dmg. 30% shield. Single 50dmg+bleed. A resistance 45dmg AOE with no effects. Zzzzzz.....
I would be thrilled by a month with no breeding events, no islands, a break from team race, and letting devs focus on buffing a long list of beloved and/or underpowered monsters already out there. Don’t make ‘em OP but give them skill sets that would no longer been seen as unworthy of even epics.