My Team: Power of Fun
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Top picks has been updated(mostly) I'll try to answer question, so feel free to post here and Ill answer as soon as possible! I'm still cleaning up the post, so bear with me. Stuff gets released faster than I can comprehend sometimes, if there is something you think I missed on, bring it up and you can persuade me otherwise!
Also there is a Discord server that I would like to promote
ML Think Tank- Bring your wits and come join us!
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As for the "heal" relics preventing death, are we sure that's not an intended purpose? Do away with all the OHK and actually make these true battles??
I could in theory put that healing relic on a level 4 monster and all the damage in the world would not be able to kill it in a singular turn. The damage is registered, the HP is reduced to 0, and then finally the healing takes place, thus preventing death.
I do not think that is an intended effect, because many of these healing potions, have 2 charges. That means I would have to take 3 turns to kill off a monster if the potion was in play.
I don't get your point about inferior relics in the same class, we have inferior monsters with the same elements so that kind of fits the pattern, some diamond relics are more desireable. Same with runes, how many X strength and Speed runes do people have vs X stamina runes??? Something being better than something else even at the same level is nothing new.
The term "strictly superior/inferior" means to be better in at least one characteristic while not being any worse in annother characteristic.
A lv 8 speed rune is strictly better than a lv 7 speed rune. A lv 8 stamina and a lv 8 speed are neither are strictly superior/inferior to each other because they offer completely different benefits.
As for relics, it is perfectly fine for a gold to be strictly better than a silver quality relic. It becomes an issue is when there are strictly superior/inferior relics within the same tier quality. In the example i used above, Bathasar's mask is strictly better than Cane of the Atlantis. They do exactly the same thing, except one has a requirement.
Yes games often have strictly superior/inferior items/gear/monsters/etc, but that usually happens over time and due to power creep.
Relics are a brand new game addition, and it already has strictly superior/inferior relics. It basically means SP wanted to release more relics, not quality relics.
Please don’t use forums for a personal platform for interpersonal issues your strugggling with in that closing signature remark .
according to facebook and gopetition...how about the removal of relics..period
Negotiations are done with compromises from both sides. Asking one side to take complete loss, does't really leave much option for Social Point but to decline.
I am aware there is a thread where feedback regarding relics is welcomed. However, after having the chance to actually play/test relics, and taking into consideration the overall reaction to relics, I felt it was necessary to create a more detailed feedback thread.
The list is based off my interactions/discussions with players on my team/other top spending teams, players from Armor Gaming Alliance Discord chat(mostly younger free players), and my personal experience with relics.
A List of Concerns and Issues Regarding Relics
- There are a myriad of bugs and abusable glitches with relics,
virtually all speed altering relics will cause turns to be skipped when the speed changes comes into play and when the speed changes leave play. Speed altering effects has always been an issue in ML, however in the past, the game designers basically scraped that idea by nerfing slow/haste effects to the point no one would use them. Social point was aware of this and still choose to incorporate these broken mechanics into the new content.
- Many healing potions, that state “When being hit, if the wearer's Life is below “x”%, heals it by “Y” amount” were not properly tested and is an exploitable mechanic . Yes, the potion does recover life when the life drops below a certain percentage, but the potion also triggers when a monster’s life is reduced to 0 and healing it by such amount. This essentially prevents death, and makes it impossible to kill a monster in a single turn. These potions are available across all relic qualities and severely impacts the game. It is an unfair and highly exploitable glitch that should be urgently addressed.
- One inconsistency involves the wording of several relics. Relics that state “When entering battle” for the most part triggered before combat takes place. However, with trap relics, the same cannot be said, as the relic triggers on contact, when the relic holder gets hit.
- Another concern is the existence of inferior relics. There are relics within the same quality tier that are strictly inferior to another relic within the same quality tier.
Take for example these two diamond quality relics.
There is no reason to use Cane of the Atlantis over Balthasar’s mask aside from the fact they are different relic slots, which they themselves seems to be arbitrarily assigned to monsters. It is a flawed design to create strictly better/worse relics within the same quality tier, it was a lazy design and was a convenient way for Social Point to push out more relics.
The game is monster legends, and many feel the emphasis of the game has always revolved around the monsters. While items like runes and relics, should be treated as supplements to the core of the game, monsters.
However that is not the case for relics. Upon release, it was pretty clear relics were going to be more than "supplementary items". The actual power level of relics is so far out of line compared to the other aspects of the game such as the monsters themselves. It seems that it is more important to have a powerful relic than to have a powerful monster.
The player experience is an important aspect for long lasting games and is no different for Monster Legends. Social point should have been more considerate and drawn more feedback from the community during the development of relics.
For the most part, relics were negatively received by the top teams based on my observations and interactions with other spending players on top teams. The poor implementation of relics makes many believe that Social Point was willing to ruin player experience and the longevity of the game for short term profits.
The decision to release grossly powerful items to the game devalues the player experience. Relics are a new addition to the game that essentially makes monster ranking and runes secondary. The effort, time and money spent on ranking up monsters and obtaining high level runes becomes insignificant compared to relics.
Two majors concerns in regards to relics are, the availability of relics and chests that contain relics. We understand relics are supposed to be developed over a long period of time. But we are asking why are relics for the most part exclusive only through in game purchases?
The introduction of the lab and the monster ranking system was designed to be a long term progression, but it also involved smaller spenders and the “free player” base. It came in the form of ranking breedable legends and the ranking of generals by buying multiple copies of the same general from the War Shop.
With the rune system, casual/free players can obtain high level runes through the crafting of lower level runes, and level 1 runes can be bought with gold from the Rune shop.
Which begs the question, why the sudden change of direction and ostracize a large majority of the player base by making relics all but impossible to obtain except through in game purchases?
Making relics extremely powerful and limiting their obtainability through only spending, shows that Social Point has changed for the worst.
They are going away from a system that made the game popular and was accessible to the masses.
To a system that requires spending in order to experience new content and an exorbitant amount of spending to reach the max level.
Relics are obtained from chests, and chests are priced at 95, 375, and 985 gems. These same chests also often yield level 1 runes, gold, food, and consumable items. Considering the price of these chests, players feel cheated by this new gambling system after paying 985 gems only to find a large portion of the rewards are useless/insignificant items. Chest fillers should be drastically reduced or removed completely from the loot table.
Each legend monster has 2 relic slots. Comparatively speaking, the cost to get the best relics and max the relics is astronomical compared to past contents such as monster ranking and runes.
- To obtain and rank a legendary to level 130, it takes 18 eggs priced at 249 gems per egg, 4500 gems total. And often it is possible to obtain several copies of a monster by simply playing the game and cell donations from a team.
- A level 10 rune costs 345 gems during a rune sale, and three level 10 runes to fully equip a monster costs 1035 gems. Runes can be obtained and ranked through the crafting system. Players can complete their rune sets through crafting, starting with level 1 runes, paying for level 10 runes at 345 gems, or a mix of both crafting/spending.
- There are 8 different diamond relics. The most expensive chest does not even guarantee a diamond relic, and based off observations, the odds of getting a diamond relic from the 985 gem chest is below 1:1. So in order to obtain a specific diamond relic, it would on average require more than 8 chests. Each chest priced at 985 gems. Over 7,880 gems. This doesn't even include the cost to rank up a diamond relic to max.
The current pricing of relics and the gambling involved to obtain relics is far out of line compared to past content. And limited availability ostracizes casual players, and forces spenders to pay an exorbitant amount of money to own powerful relics or not bother with relics at all because they have been priced out to play competitively.
In conclusion, chests often contain useless items or an inferior relics which makes the experience of buying a chest unrewarding. We wish for the removal of filler items and the removal/change of inferior relics as well as a change to the current pricing, to one that is similar to the price point of past contents.
- There are a myriad of bugs and abusable glitches with relics,
sorry for the late reply, and actually replying to questions for once(hopefully i'll keep to my word and make it a habit to
Shallinar in fire is superb one of the best attackers if not the best in within that element. However, in Female, shallinar is like a spit wad compared to Zyla in terms of damage output.
I've fully updated the list now, yes atum is over uria :D
Yes the possession change, she will not be able to bypass possession anymore, but she still is one of the few fires that can one shot most nonimmune to burning fires with just 1 X str at lv 130. Hopefreezer and Greedy are the other two capable of that.
Majority of my rankings is based purely on the books they are in. Take for instance underworld, many monsters that I feel are top notch monsters in wars with their element like judgement, Famperium, and Igurus would dominate, but however, this book has demise and barbatos, one of the best supports in the game, and probably one of the best single target attackers in the game. Leaves very little room for others if such dominant monsters are in a specific book
On a side note, the tier listing is incomplete, I am still working on putting out a more comprehensive Tier list for individual roles and will add to it here as i continue working on it
Also finished all the notes sections and well as cleaned up the list in general, still will continue to refine the post for more consistency, but still feel free to ask about certain placements etc.
No mention of Samael in Winged??
In relation to defence, I put Plague Carrier ahead of Fever Scatterer for 2 reasons:
It is faster, recognising that with Rune Guardian this may mean little; and
Immunity to energy drain due to 0 cost Samael's Warrior coupled with giving its ally full stamina and etc.
The reasoning I would put FC above PC on defense, is in the event there is a restriction where the offense cannot stack buffs to blow up your defense, the offense may need to resort to picking off threats 1 by 1.
The FC can be a legitimate threat because if he allowed to live, his 100% buff onto himself posses a serious threat to a defense without the requirement of a strength rune. PC buffing himself with 50% damage will hurt, but it won't be enough to threaten lethal damage.
PC on offense will always outspeed another PC on defense, so the way I see it, given the restrictions don't provide double stacking buff opportunities, the only way to actually steal a coin from that sort of offense is if the opponent ends up ignoring the FC, and the FC buffs himself to kill the opposing PC.
One last thing, semi relevant to the topic.
There is a line between broken and overpowered, VIPs are considered overpowered because of that trait, a 15% edge over tough trait, most of the VIP's skill's were in line in terms of dmg/effects with other popular non vips. Same thing with nemesis, they are overpowered due to being the only monsters with all these options, but trait wise, id say the nemesis trait is still inferior to tough. However they are still subject to the rng factor of the game. No Vips(minus zyla) or nemesis(thus far) have actually broken the game, they are simply an improvement on what already existed.
Broken is a whole other thing that i feel needs to be addressed and will probably do a post on it sooner than later. These monster's bypass the mechanics of the game and enable "perfect" offenses. Meaning 0% chance of losing with the proper set up for runes, and there are no defensive answers to them.
The dev's used the term "dominant strategy" with thetys+voltaik offenses. They didnt quite explain why its a "dominant strategy" and who exactly the main problem of that duo.
The way to counter thetys, have impactful ultimates on your defense, or make more super attuned monsters.
Thety's stam devour is overpowered in the sense, you reduce the risk you are exposed to RNG from 10% to 5%. AOE disables are usually 90% but stop the risk of a defense countering with an ultimate. For SD, when that 5% does occur it hits you hard.
Voltaik/zyla on the other hand are broken because of the way they scale in terms of damage. X red gives 102% dmg, X life gives 108%, and with HP being scaled higher as you progress beyond lv 100, it comes to the point when monsters stop OHK each other, the more life runes a defense stacked the larger the gap widened between STR and Life runes.
Both v/z scale with red but breaks the game with stamina, 152% for X rune. They both already can kill any singular monster with just one str or stamina rune, with the synergy of stamina runes + multiple +turns for ultimate procs, that enables them to wipe entire teams no risk. They bypass the RNG factor of missing because their attacks are broken into little chunks and can't be countered on defense. If the opponents decide to go heavier on life runes, the offense can keep up by adding more team stamina. If they decide to go full speed defense, a denial lead voltaik offense can still do lethal dmg with just 1 stamina. The scaling of these two monsters are completely out of line compared to traditional monsters and their damage range.